Interesting (?) discussion I just had with a player who was DQd for playing an extra ball out of turn

[pinwizj]

@Snailman

Bzzzzzzzt. Incorrect. Jorgen tilted through to me on Genesis this year.So add Genesis to the list of pins that need to be played on 1 & 3 only.

And thankfully, I had a killer compensation ball to take the 7 on that game.

Damnit! Time to start a new streak in Denmark

[SunsetShimmer]

Regarding continuing to play the next ball but leaving before the ball leaves the plunger lane: This is the equivalent of picking up your piece in a tournament chess match but putting it back down on the same space. No chess organization is going to count that as having made a move, and the way I see it, no pinball association should consider this as taking someone else’s turn. They stopped before any effect could happen (besides psychologically). That player would need a warning though, that tournament games have all extra balls turned off where possible and that machines might say they give you an extra ball but they really don’t. It’s a perfectly understandable mistake for someone not familiar with tournament-style play.

I didn’t know that about Super Skill Shots though. I didn’t know that tripping the plunger lane switch will trigger it regardlessof if it leaves the plunger lane or not. Interesting. But since it was never mentioned that anyone held the left flipper button, that did not apply in that particular case.

[gammagoat]

@SunsetShimmer

This is the equivalent of picking up your piece in a tournament chess match but putting it back down on the same space. No chess organization is going to count that as having made a move, and the way I see it, no pinball association should consider this as taking someone else’s turn.

Your analogy is wrong for chess. In chess as soon as you touch a peice you must move that peice unless there is no legal move. So no, you have not completed move, but you are playing a move. The rule is in place to prevent people from faking moves to measure the reaction of their opponent.

Sit on your hands is the advice my high school chess coach gave.

[cayle]

@pinwizj

Even more painful to listen to Cayle’s self-commentary about it.

I make sure to re-watch that video at least once a year, just for the feels.

[TaylorVA]

Is yelling at someone to stop plunging coaching? Just curious how one would judge this if players complained about it.

[SunsetShimmer]

@gammagoat

Your analogy is wrong for chess. In chess as soon as you touch a peice you must move that peice unless there is no legal move. So no, you have not completed move, but you are playing a move. The rule is in place to prevent people from faking moves to measure the reaction of their opponent.

Sit on your hands is the advice my high school chess coach gave.

Huh, is that how it is? So it’s actually illegal to move a piece and put it back on the same space?

[gammagoat]

The rule is called touch move. This is independent of the other rules around only using one hand to move peices and being unable to retract a move once your hand it taken off it.

The exception is if you declare “j’adoube” before touching the peice, in which case you are declaring that you are adjusting the peice, not making move.

[Wizcat]

At Pinburgh last year we were playing Cyclopes and for some reason the player before me immediately replunged after playing his first ball. He made the saucer skill shot and I immediately reacted by stepping up and continuing to play from that point.

At the time it was just an instinctual reaction, but to me it also feels like the fairest way to continue at that point. My question is - should I feel bad for ‘screwing over’ the other two players (who would otherwise be bumped up a place) for not making a protest? What’s the protocol for that kind of situation should it happen again next this year?

Standing there and watching the ball drain would have made me feel a bit crappy to be honest. Does it make a difference if this is an early round vs a late round? What’s your thinking here.

[cayle]

The correct call is you continue to play the ball you have taken over and are in control of. The Player who plunged it gets a 0 for that match. You didn’t screw anyone over individually, but by no one exercising the DQ rules in that case every other player in your division “suffered” as that player potentially earned more points than they should have.

Early round/late round makes no difference. The points from the start of the event are just as valuable as the points at the end.

" player who plays out of turn in a multiplayer game will receive a score of zero. The affected player may choose to take over the ball in play, if possible, or he or she may choose to have the incident treated as a major malfunction. In the event the player takes over, he or she shall be deemed “in control” after declaring his or her intent, taking his or her position at the table, and making contact with the ball via the flippers. The affected player may not change his or her mind once he or she is “in control”.

[Wizcat]

Thanks Cayle, that makes sense. Wasn’t sure if by playing the remainder of my ball I’d forfeited the chance to exercise the DQ rule. Good to know.

Still, I’d rather not be put in that awkward spot again.

[genex]

Something to note that we try and do around here for tournies is for players to describe situations by anonymizing the scenario. This means when describing what’s going on, you just say Player One plunged Player Two’s ball, etc. You don’t say who was winning etc as that is not really relevant and especially not who that player is. I know in some parts there are players who might get more respect/less respect but the ruling should always be independent of who it is and how nice a girl/guy she/he is or is not. It also helps in case the person making the ruling might know one or another of the players personally…

[philoflipper]

Good question. The tournaments I run are at a venue where we cannot turn off extra balls. The rule I use is that any touching of the flippers to “set up” the skill shot has to be done before plunging. The flippers cannot be touched while (or, obviously, after) plunging.

[SunsetShimmer]

@philoflipper

Good question. The tournaments I run are at a venue where we cannot turn off extra balls. The rule I use is that any touching of the flippers to “set up” the skill shot has to be done before plunging. The flippers cannot be touched while (or, obviously, after) plunging.

Sorry if I’m missing something here, but does that mean that for those skill shots where you send a ball down the flashing top rollover, you have to decide on the flashing rollover before the plunge?

[JSwain]

Correct!

[SunsetShimmer]

Huh, an interesting rule. Do you tell all of the contestants, or at least put up a notice, regarding this rule?

[joe]

This is a pretty common rule for leagues and tournaments playing on machines where they don’t have access to actually disable extra balls in software. You can set up the game however you want prior to plunging the ball, but once the ball is in motion, hands off.

Certainly, the event director should publicize this rule to players as much as possible… and for match-play situations, hopefully there’s at least one veteran in each group who can advise others in the group of the rules if they’re not already aware.

[GApinball]

I would think a TD or non match player would plunge just so that player doesn’t even get to gauge the plunger spring for skill shots in the future.

[JSwain]

That’s even more unusual. Then you have outside players directly impacting players scores. An outsider can intentionally miss a skill shot or other odd things. Sometimes those can be very valuable. You should get something out of earning it. We just don’t play them for time. Keeps things moving.

[SunsetShimmer]

@joe

This is a pretty common rule for leagues and tournaments playing on machines where they don’t have access to actually disable extra balls in software. You can set up the game however you want prior to plunging the ball, but once the ball is in motion, hands off.

Certainly, the event director should publicize this rule to players as much as possible… and for match-play situations, hopefully there’s at least one veteran in each group who can advise others in the group of the rules if they’re not already aware.

All right then. When I’m playing out in public, I’ll go absolutely nuts in changing the blinking rollovers at the top up to the moment the ball actually rolls over the switch. Since the game itself lets me do that, I always assumed tournaments would too. (How does this relate to extra balls though?)

[zvrabes]

@SunsetShimmer

(How does this relate to extra balls though?)

Whether or not a player is allowed to activate the flippers before launch and/or once the ball is in play can impact whether or not they earn the skill shot on their extra ball. I’ve seen many a match decided based on something that occurred on a plunged EB.