This would get abused all the time by players who are underperforming in an event and don’t want to have it on their record.
No problem by me. Happens in all kinds of events all around the world. WD is reserved for excused circumstance (medical). DNF not excused.
WD no penalty
DNF last place finish with 0 points. Drops your rating and eff percentage. And shows in your ranking DNF.
If I’m running the show, then…
Wait until an official can be found and make a ruling. If it can be demonstrated that Player A is intentionally trying to get Player B DQ’d, then Player A is thrown out of the tournament for cheating.
It’s the official’s fault. I will take an official directive as law, always. No penalty to the player, although if I’m Player B here, I simply plunge and let it drain and then play my own ball.
This one’s more subtle. If Player A is again trying to get Player B in trouble, then it’s the same ruling as #1. If it was a mistake, then Player B is at fault for playing an opponent’s ball, under the existing expectation that each player is responsible for knowing when it is their turn.
My take:
Player B summons a tournament official. Official sticks around until player A plunges, or the official plunges for them (whatever the particular event’s “delay of game” protocol is). Part of the responsibility of a tournament official is to ensure proper flow of the event.
I would not penalize player B if the TD explicitly gave them incorrect information… although even in this situation, I think player B has a responsibility to check the scoreboard to confirm that it’s their turn. Trust but verify.
Player B. It’s irrelevant if Player A said “Bob, you’re up”, or if Player A just walked away.
I had a situation over the weekend in a 3 player group on Nugent. Player A earned an extra ball, but the shoot again light never came on and there are no audible clues that an extra ball was awarded. Player B stepped up and started playing. once he realized what happened he stopped. Should either player be DQ because of this? would this fall under a malfunctioning machine? The “player up” light in the backbox was working but not exactly easy to read on this particular backglass.
I ruled to deduct the un-earned points from the extra ball (the game has no progression from ball to ball so progression wasn’t an issue). From a sportsmanship perspective I feel this was a fair decision, but I’m questioning myself if I made the right rules decision.
Lots of questions for you, but it sounds like you made a pretty reasonable call. The only change I think I would have made (pending your answers to my questions below) would be to not deduct the points Player B “gave” to Player A. The idea is that all of the players in the group (i.e., Player C as well) are responsible for paying attention to keep this kind of thing from happening.
My questions:
Is the only Shoot Again light the one between the flippers on the playfield?
Did you confirm that this light is indeed not working?
For the Player Up light, would you say that the average player would be able read it if he/she was looking at it?
Was there a note or a verbal warning to let players know that EBs were enabled on this machine?
There were multiple issues in the way the game was setup- normal extra balls were given points, but a special would given an extra ball. I didn’t confirm the light was out but was told by several players it was. If you were looking for the players up button to be on - yes you could see it.
People did know extra balls were turned on (and weren’t allowed to be played in this round).
This is the key, I think.
In a perfect world, you would have known about the problem ahead of time and added a note on the backglass like “Use the Player 1, Player 2, etc. lights on the backglass to determine the current player; extra balls can be earned via the Special but the Shoot Again light might not be working”. Absent a note or verbal warning like that, I think it’s reasonable to step in and make an exception if your ruling is that the lack of the Shoot Again light induced the player into making this mistake.
This reminds me: My Amazon Hunt has a Pascal board and ball save is on. If you drain during ball save, the display says something like “Chance” but then reverts to displaying all players’s scores. AH in general uses a blinking score display to indicate the current player, but for some reason it doesn’t blink after the ball save after “Chance” goes away. So it’s very easy for players to get the player order wrong if they don’t know if the player got a ball save – in other words, if they missed their one chance at seeing “Chance” display.
So I should definitely put a note on this machine to let players know they need to watch the display closely.
It’s your decision to make. As tournament director I follow the rules that are written – at Pinburgh this is a clear DQ for Player B. If a player isn’t sure whose turn it is, they can get an official to come over and find out.
Whether or not it was the “right rules decision” depends on your rules! 
I’m with Bowen on this and would have ruled it as a DQ.
I had a similar situation at the first Pinburgh on some old ass 2-player EM. All the backbox lights were out, making it impossible to see who was up. Someone scored a 0 on their first ball, and I stepped up as “player 2”, scared out of my mind to plunge that ball.
Called a TD over, and unsure if it was my turn or not because the game wasn’t offering any guidance as to who was up, asked what to do. I was allowed to play-on with no consequence should it still be on player 1, but only because I brought it up before I walked up and played.
Turned out it did advance to player 2, so I was fine, but any time you’re unclear make you sure you handle those issues IN ADVANCE of plunging 
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Sounds kinda dodgy to be using a game with no backbox lights. Surprised they didn’t switch you up.
I also played a Captain Fantastic that same year with no playfield lights at all … Ruling was to play on.
Go in the A … I mean B! I mean … Hell I don’t know!
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Right or wrong, I would’ve made the same call. But, if the game was set up properly, you never would’ve had to make the call. Nugent allows you to award points for specials. Did you have the keys? Also, when did you learn the bulb was out?
Not like your strategy is going to change on CF 
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There’s a good thread topic: Pins that you don’t need playfield lights in order to play
WoZ, because usually they’re out anyway…
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Yet another wrinkle on the classic playing-out-of-turn just happened in a league group in which I was playing last night.
P3 earned an extra ball during his ball 2 on Metallica, but didn’t realize it was set to award points but not an extra ball. (He’s a new competitive player.) After his ball was over, the game moved to P4 but he thought he had an extra ball he needed to plunge. As he was pulling back the plunger, a few people (yes, including me) yelled “Don’t!” or similar. This was apparently enough to cause P3 to almost completely stop, but he ended up short plunging with the ball coming very close to, but not quite leaving, the shooter lane.
Interference or no interference?
If you answer “no interference” to this question, what would you say if the short plunge left the shooter lane and went into the trough without hitting any switches, so that P4 was still unaffected?
Because this situation happened in a group I was involved in, I had my deputy step in and make the ruling. I won’t reveal what his ruling actually was until @pinwizj chimes in ( ).
To me, this is one of those edge cases where the rules allow for multiple interpretations based on how you understand the words “plays out of turn”.
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That’s a good example of a weird edge case.
And if that player realizes their wrongful, but short enough plunge, can they bump it off the orbit feed to avoid the sling and hope for a center drain? 
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BURN THE WITCH!
I’d let this fly as “no interference” since P4 wasn’t impacted and the ball didn’t actually make it into play.
If it left the plunger lane that would be tougher for me to decide on, because now you’re considering anything that isn’t ‘validating playfield’ NOT interference. Which in that case, I’ll call Cayle over to play the start of every one of my JackBot multiballs, crack me off a couple of free JackBot’s, and then leave me with the ball in the plunger lane ready to go 
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You jumped in so quickly that we’re not building suspense (for anyone other than @jdelz I guess), but here’s the ruling that was made:
- No interference. Play on.
Stuff I didn’t mention before:
- Everyone who was watching is only somewhat sure that the ball didn’t leave the shooter lane, but no one actually saw it and remembers with 100% certainty. I remember seeing the launch and assuming it was going to leave the shooter lane, but not actually seeing the latter. I think we’re all in agreement that P3 should get the benefit of the doubt in that situation and the ruling should be made as if the ball wasn’t plunged onto the playfield. Anyone want to argue with that one? (Where’s @Adam?
) - This ruling meant that I got second rather than first place.
- But I was hoping the ruling would go that way (without telling my deputy anything to sway him one way or the other) so that the new player would be the first person ever to learn about this rule first-hand without feeling screwed.
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