Incomplete game releases

It took a lot of time learning Iron Maiden and I read every single post (at that time, more than 500? 600? 1000?, at that time - one year ago) in the rule sheet thread before I even started to play it “seriously” :grimacing: That’s just reading about the rule sheet. One one game.

I read (more or less) every post on Deadpool and kept track of the software updates, changes and even submitted a bug report that was fixed. Imagine doing that with every single game that’s released. From all manufacturers. That will take a lot of time. :slight_smile: I sort of got “burnt out” from just these two games and the rules keep changing.

I’m willing to spend time creating a “system” on how to keep track of software updates, rule changes etc. But I won’t spend time administrating it (perhaps one or two games), but I can code updates to the existing “system”. That’s one desire to fix my problem.

I think this is a way bigger problem in Sweden than in other countries. Unfortunately, the stranglehold from facebook on people in Sweden is strong. To say the least. A site like this would never work over here.

Yes. I enojy playing pinball, a lot, on a few selected games. But I don’t enjoy getting good GCs deleted, relearning rules/strategies, spending (too much) time reading release notes etc. I don’t play console or video games really and didn’t know that it’s the “standard” to release incomplete game, but I am aware of updates.

I prefer the WMS 90s games. But I’m done with most of them. I’ve played them, a lot. They are fun to play occasionally, but I prefer new (1.0!) games in general. Classic games (before ~1989) is not my cup of tea since the rules are usually way to simple. I like the (deep-ish) strategy elements in pinball.

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Yes. I will wait until the games are “stable”. A 1.0-release is a good starting point for me. I guess there will be a 1000, or so, rule sheet-posts to read at that point. :face_with_monocle: But I don’t mind (going into the JP-thread soon).

That’s good to hear! If there are some major overhauls of the scoring I can see why the GCs would be deleted. But from what I’ve seen the last year in software releases I think the GCs should stand.

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Screenshot 2020-03-11 at 18.11.56

Isn’t that called the patch notes? Also isn’t that the same thing as learning them? Reading the changes?

I have not read it front to back. I have read the wiki, seen the way most top players attack it and then I’m able to find my own way. Maybe you could try something similar and then watch videos for the best way.

This part is where maybe I don’t understand. What do you mean wouldn’t work? We arent strictly limited to only USA. That’s why it’s called the World Wide Web? The only difference is population. Facebook is just as popular here as it is over there. I don’t even have a Facebook myself, this is the only form of social media you’ll see me on.

I guess it’s “release notes” / “read me”? I read every Deadpool, Iron Maiden and a few Total Nuclear Annihilation-“read me”, but I just can’t keep up doing this for every single game. Not even the STERN games. A way of resolving this “issue” (with me spending too much time) is to not (try to) learn the games inside out, but that’s the way I like to play.

The videos are ok for the basics. I’ve watched way too many of them. But it’s mostly tournament matches and (obviously) there are different strategies involved when you play in Tournament Mode. Especially on Iron Maiden.

Offtopic, but still… You have to take language in account here too. Having a Swedish (only allowing posts in Swedish, and possibly Norwegian and Danish) website/forum is so much more limited than doing it in english.

Congratulations to not having a facebook-account! :slight_smile: I have one now (it was one of them fake-accounts that turned real, due to some obilgations), but I will probably delete it soon. It’s a waste of time, for the most part. Personally, I hope facebook will be gone as soon as possible.

Alright this is where I am misunderstanding. In a perfect world, resources and time aside, what are you proposing will fix this and help you? This whole website thing.

Tournaments are the best way to learn. It’s popular in all of esports and I’m sure regular sports do it as well. Tournament mode doesn’t change so much that you can’t follow, a few minor changes like skill shots and taking away randomness. Which isn’t really a factor more of an equalizer. Modes score the same.

Sure, but you also have to travel less for a community and that’s mostly a population thing. It’s almost impossible to compare because of the sheer difference in numbers.

We live in the most connected age. If you need me, you’ll find me.

The website is one idea. I’m out of other ideas at the moment. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has this problem with rule changes etc. I’ve heard and seen some complaints regarding this (also positive words, of course, regarding updates).

In a perfect world the games would be released, with a complete, balanced set of rules. But that’s not gonna happen, I guess. Having this information in a structured way on a website (rather than reading “read me”-files, forum-threads etc.) could help a lot of people in pinball? Even the manufacturers perhaps? However, I would have to limit the scope of this, a lot, if I would do it myself. I have plenty of other programming projects going. :expressionless:

Well, I don’t learn the games while playing Tournament matches really. I won’t try to discover new strategies in a tournament match. I just play it safe.

Tournament mode changes a lot, on some games. A simple example is Attack from Mars: I would never ever shoot the saucer on purpose in Tournament mode. It’s a waste of …shots… since I’m not going for Rule the Universe and there are not many points to be had. If it happens (it has happened in Tournament mode for me) by chance, fine, but that’s not what I’m going for. Other games are more complex, and some are just the same. To me, that is.

If it helps, I’ve been trying to cut down to the key points of patches while also discussing the changes they may include. If I don’t get to some update, it’s likely a bugfix/minor change patch and won’t impact play heavily.

https://scoutsscoop.home.blog/

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Which requires testing from all types of players. Some who play multiball better, some who are flow players, some who can find exploits etc. Think of the pre code as beta. I think code before it finished is ok.

Right that’s what I’m asking. What is a better way than read me? How else would you like this information? A flow chart like this? http://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/ww/WW_Rules_April19.pdf

We are speaking of different things. I thought you meant tournament mode or competition install which changes settings in the game. In attack from Mars the 3rd reward is always Strobe, never multiball etc. Iron Maiden install changes so the skill shots are disabled and the modes always start the same.

So you mean as a style of play which yes is different. Playing for a tournament and playing for fun are different approaches which I agree with. There’s lots of videos on YouTube of people getting to wizard modes so the information is there.

Great stuff! This is what I’m looking for.

Would you be interested in maintaining a part of a website (“Pin City”) with a section for code updates etc.? I would code it and you and I could discuss what features/functions would be needed. It feels like something I could do i 3-4 days of work. There will be …other things… on the site as well.

First of all, there are formats that are easier to read than txt-files. :expressionless: Also, if someone else (perhaps me sometimes?) could do summaries/observations like the “META OBSERVATIONS” that @ScoutPilgrim had on his blog.

One problem is that I have no idea when a new ROM is out and when to even look for the “read me”-files and see if it’s 1) worth contacting the operator to tell them to update the ROMs 2) play the new ROMs

Yes, when I say “Tournament mode” no extra balls is implied. Yep! Tournament play vs. for fun/GC-chasing is a completely (on most games) different story to me.

There’s probably no lack of pinball-videos on youtube these days. I watched a lot of videos from https://pinballvideos.com/ (great site!) last year. I did not play pinball at all, more or less, between 2008-2018 so there was a lot of games to discover. I still haven’t played games like Metallica, X-Men and …more… Btw. my favourite games from this period 2008-2018 are, by far: Iron Maiden and Deadpool.

When it comes to patch notes I’d prefer text. I’m not sure what else there is for this that’s why I’m asking.

Sterns website or the Stern of the Union monthly report.
Other websites like https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/

Ryan posted this already, you could subscribe to List of games with their current code number Wiki, it’s usually updated very quickly when new code drops.

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If we’re talking old-skool I’d prefer HTML-formatted files. At least. And I guess I prefer old schoold. But even something like Rich text formats would be better. It doesn’t make that much difference to a txt-file though.

Btw. I’m confident that at least one thing has been missing in the Deadpool “read me”-files: an extra ball that was removed between two ROM-versions. I couldn’t find a note on that anywhere (it takes time to keep up, yes! :slight_smile: )

I took a look at the Stern website and they have an RSS-feed! I added the feed and will keep track of that. Wonderful! :star_struck:
https://sternpinball.com/support/game-code/feed/

It’s a great page, great work indeed. However, I would like to track when the main page is updated, somehow. I don’t know if it’s possible. There’s an RSS-feed:


…but it’s for the entire thread, I think. Which means I would get a lot of posts in my feed that I might not be interested in reading. I really try to keep the “notifications” (in life) to a minimum, to be able to manage them. If it’s possible to just track the first post I would like to do that.

Thanks for the help for managing the ROM-circus out there! Now we’re getting somewhere.

Who remembers the #wheresthecode initiative? :joy:

Please do, we’re always happy to listen to constructive feedback!

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Nope. I don’t remember it. It did not get the same repsonse as #MeToo? :thinking: