I dont care about the finals but i think the path of entry might need to be adjusted. People can buy their way into the finals just by competing in more events. We cap state events at 20 so we might want to look at capping SPC events to something like Top 5. Another concern are SPC events with low cap of participants. Making the SPC finals is becoming a competition of who can afford the travel/time off and who can click to buy tickets fast enough (City Champ, Pinburgh, Sanctum 24hr etc) .
3 Likes
Sorry everyone, Pinburgh is off the circuit schedule.
8 Likes
That $5 fee is going to have to climb to something much larger for your dreams to become reality
1 Like
What a hot take! That totally must have been what I meant.
The point isn’t to go around looking to exclude tournaments and rule with an iron fist. It’s about creating a system by which events are measured. There’s a difference between a 2-day match play tournament across 400+ games with 1000+ players, than a 12-game Herb bank. C’mon…
Well, that’s really what we’re talking about right? We’re talking about major corporate sponsorship to subsidize. If pinball is to move out of the basements and bars, and into the mainstream as a “sport” then it has to be underwritten by non-players. Besides, a LOT of this stuff could happen fairly quickly, without much outlay in cost. This doesn’t have to be pushed out at once (and likely wouldn’t be).
2 Likes
Of course there’s a difference but I think they’re both legitimate and worthy of circuit status. Your suggestion of IFPA looking at an event’s proposed game list and shooting down non-worthy games is pretty wild and I was poking fun at it.
Completely, 100% agree that they are both worthy. Absolutely.
Disagree that it’s wild to suggest someone approve game lists. There are known, bad games for tournaments. Not a ton of them, but they exist. Why would a sport looking to take itself more seriously, and the world to take it seriously, not try and get those games out of tournaments that feed into a major championship? And to be clear, I’m not talking about the thousands of IFPA-sanctioned tournaments that happen every year. By all means, include them. Games with 12 gobble holes? Go HAM. I’m talking about 20 supposedly high profile events that whittle the field down to the top 1% of competitors. There’s prestige there for sure, and I’m of the opinion that everyone who’s made an attempt to get there, should feel that process has been fair to all.
Can you cite any examples of circuit events using games that you’d deem inappropriate for competition and would want to see blacklisted? Genuinely curious
If you don’t want to throw anyone under the bus publicly, feel free to PM.
2 Likes
If tourney directors choose “bad” games and run “cute” formats I can only assume that outspoken players such as yourself will stop attending and the problem will sort itself out as those events drop off the circuit from lack of interest/participation.
3 Likes
Not specifically off the top of my head (thread split re: historical, easily accessed qualifying-level data), but I could come up with several scenarios of questionable games that would be less than ideal for competition without game adjustments. I look at this as more of a conversation starter and reminder that takes place before a tournament is underway, between governing body and organizers. If it’s a non-issue, and everything is on the up and up, then this shouldn’t be a hinderance at all.
Ah yes, the old “the market will correct itself” argument. Respectfully disagree. There’s a broad line between egregious errors that cause vocal players to provide feedback, and annoyances that make people shake their heads in line and say “well, that should have been done differently” and don’t make their way onto survey’s. I frankly find this approach lazy / non-proactive. It shouldn’t be the players responsibility to police organizers in high profile competition.
It sounds like you’ve encountered games that shouldn’t be fit for circuit events. What are some that you’ve seen used? Or settings used that shouldn’t have been?
I’m of the opinion too that if game selection is horrible, I’m not sure the tournament will be on the circuit for long or really how it got on the circuit to begin with.
I’ve aired my grievances privately and publicly and after a full nights rest I’m less angry about it and more confused. As someone who had a minuscule chance to make it in the first place it’s going to be even harder to make it now. Sure, play better is the most common response to that. But now I’m less inclined to travel to more circuit events.
How will this affect the potential classics circuit finals if at all?
It would be curious as to how a game is classified as “worthy”.
From reading posts over the years and listening to the laments of some players I’ve been in competition with, many seem to feel anything that is not a DMD game is a “luck box”, which I would strongly disagree.
9 Likes
High Hand 
4 Likes
Best competition game ever, needs to be cloned.
1 Like
Derby Day all the way
3 Likes
So, minor annoyances which don’t even rise to the level of survey feedback should be proactively policed by the circuit governing body? Is it even possible to run a tourney where no one will say “well, that should have been done differently” at some point?
Your position is starting to sound like a thousand word version of “only games and settings and formats I like should be used.” I mean, you just blanket dismiss the Sanctum (one of the most beloved events) as not circuit worthy, without even a shred of a reason why.
Variety is the spice of life. Part of the fun (and frankly, skill) of a pinball tournament is adjusting to the format, game lineup, settings, pitch, tilt sensitivity, etc.
3 Likes
The point of my post was to outline some things which I think could use structure, guidance, and framing as the Circuit tries to position itself as more and more mainstream. It was not to get into the weeds about various levels of feedback on the quality of current Circuit events, or to evaluate what’s a valid complaint vs invalid.
That is my position. Big picture, optics matter. If my position was to include only settings and formats that I like, it would be 110% classic games, skewing almost all towards EM’s. I go to the 24-hour Battle. I love it. I will continue to go back. My reason why was stated…it’s a 24-hour pinball competition. It’s in the name! It’s a novelty format. It’s cute. I like it, but…it’s cute. Trust me, circuit status or not - it will still sell out and be a success. Should we award Circuit points for those with the ability to stay awake and play well for 24-hours? I’m not sure.
You’re absolutely correct that variety is the spice of life. It’s why we play in different places. It’s why we play different games. It’s why we generally try and stick to the handful of different, tested formats that evaluate players on skill. But do I think that, say, settings on one copy of IM at Circuit Event #1 and Circuit Event #12 should be the same? Absolutely.
2 Likes
I don’t know about that…was having a conversation with @jdelz about game setup and we agreed on the principle that a limited format should have games set up (generally) easier than a format with unlimited qualifying.
5 Likes
Yeah, there’s no reason for setup uniformity from one event to the other. Every event has different reasons to use varying setups and I’d hate to see that decision making taken away from TDs who have specific goals in mind.
2 Likes
I would like to speak in favor of the oddball games. There was a time when I would have thought getting really good at a super early game like Aquarius wasn’t possible. Luck Box is a term I have seen thrown around. This was before Trent Augustine threw me on the floor and stole my lunch money on the thing at Pinburgh. Metaphorically speaking. It was perhaps my only one or zero points round at Pinburgh in three years and one of my favorite rounds ever. Fun players and fun games. But in order to be what I consider good at pinball you need to be good at terrible games. You need to know the rules to Alvin G & Co, Zachariah, and random wedge head nonsense, or be good enough to where you can coast on through on flips and nudges alone. In addition, I don’t feel there needs to be a by the book set up. Tight tilts, loose tilts, rubbers on, off, posts removed or whatever. It’s like wind or a light drizzle in golf. If you make a serious departure from the standard, out of the box code, then you should probably note that on the backglass or somewhere, so it isn’t a thing only out of town players are unaware of, but I can’t ever recall that being an issue in my personal experience.
While it isn’t appropriate for a major circuit tournament, I would even argue that a spot of bare wood or a pop bumper being busted is something that you should be able to play around if you’re better than decent. And while I very rarely watch pinball videos, a best of five match between Raymond and Elwin would be more entertaining on Flintstones, Transporter, Big Hurt, Hoops and Future Spa than watching them play Attack From Mars for the eleven millionth time.
8 Likes