Are circuit event winners auto qualified for Finals like in the past? If they dont wish to attend spot is offered to next person in the circuit standings? Think I remember that being a thing, could be mistaken.
Short answer … No.
Longer answer …
Too bad the field is being cut in half, as it makes it very tough for those who can’t commit to most of the schedule. But I suppose that’s the definition of a pro tour! If you’re not a pro, and don’t want to tour, this circuit may not be for you.
One change I would like to see as a viewer, especially if finals will continue to include classic Sterns, is some way to ensure a variety of games are chosen in the ladder. Maybe no game can be picked a second time until all games are played once? As game choices dwindle, the strategy on whether to choose game or order could become more interesting. And I’d much rather see Big Game or Stars on stream than a dozen games of Deadpool and/or Maiden (even though the latter is my favorite game of all time).
edit: nevermind the part I crossed out, rules make it clear that’s irrelevant
4 Likes
A 4 game round 1, 4 game round 2, 9 game ladder format was deemed too lengthy.
So the 17 game format has been replaced with … a 19 game ladder
And yes, I realize each average round should be faster since there’s only 1 game instead of 5 or 10 and the slowest game determines round length. Still, they’re cutting 50% of the field for what looks like a small time savings.
And I don’t buy the ESPN thing. There’s no reason tv production can’t start at the ladder round. WPT only ever showed the final table of 6 in their poker productions.
2 Likes
I have participated in all 7 Circuit Finals and I think the new changes are awesome and a welcome relief. And not a “relief” because I went out in the first round a couple of times when the format changed (do I count as a "top player " ?), but because those new rounds before the ladder to get us from 40 to 10 was such a grind, and such an arbitrary crap shoot of groups and games, it was truly “unfun”, in my opinion, compared to the original format. In the last couple of years, the modern games were setup so brutal because of time constraints (understandable, but it still sucked) and if you were lucky/unlucky enough to be in groups 8,9, or 10, your “selection” of games was laughable. Andy deserves even more credit for his victory this year, because he survived Group 9 in Round 1 playing on Stars, Ali, Cheetah, and Star Wars (and if Star Wars was available as a choice for a Group 9, game 4, you can imagine how shitty it played to be skipped over by the previous 8 groups, lol) (Group 10 got Cheetah, Cheetah, Stars, Ali).
The 20 player ladder finals, as originally developed by PAPA, is simply awesome and unlike any other tournament experience out there. The intensity of the potential for a one-and-done tournament makes every single game play like a mini final-game-of-the-tournament. And with the ladder, you can offer up a variety of games from all eras without feeling bad that anyone is going to be “stuck” on a game because every incoming player gets to chose their poison. I also loved, loved, loved, the $100 bounty for the winner of each game and made each match interesting on multiple levels, but I certainly understand and support from a time perspective, the new notion that once a player is out, the game ends and you move to the next match. The ladder portion of finals this year was mercifully short with this new, “abridged” version, so I think a 20 player ladder would move along at a nice clip.
And in my opinion, 20 players for the finals is plenty. I probably won’t be able to qualify anymore with my 3 events (INDISC, Pinburgh, and Expo), but then I don’t believe I should be able to qualify on just 3 events for a Circuit that has 20 events, and I want to see players in the finals who worked hard and played well to get there! So bravo for returning back to the original format!
10 Likes
Yeah, while I hate the smaller field, I wholeheartedly agree with all of your points about those first rounds the way they were set-up, it’s a lot of the reason I chose not to attend this year (I would’ve been in that group 9).
It was always ridiculous to me that theoretically group 10 could’ve been forced to play the same game four times!
2 Likes
CEL in as #20 seed or gtfo.
3 Likes
That’s being replaced with a no whammy card. Collect 3 no whammy cards to replay any game you lose 
6 Likes
I’m curious about what people think of the other changes - specifically that you can’t pick the game that was just played, and you do not get to pick order.
Huh? Where are these changes? Can’t pick order??
https://www.ifpapinball.com/circuit/rules/
- Ladder-Bracket Finals
The Ladder-Bracket of the Circuit Final consists of a series of four-player games. The first game is played by the four lowest-seeded players. The highest-seeded player has choice of machine to be played. The player will not have the option to select the machine used in the previous round of play.
The order of players is determined with the top seed playing 1st, next highest seed playing 2nd, third highest seed playing 3rd, lowest seed playing in 4th position.
I think it’s a little odd, but doesn’t bother me that much. Curious why it was decided though.
1 Like
That’s absolutely bonkers
1 Like
Low seed gets to go fourth every single game?!? Is this just so the broadcast is easier ?!? So they don’t have to change the player order?!? Good lord
No, it’s to give them a chance of pulling off an upset since they are the lowest seed.
I think these changes and a lot of the comments demonstrate the point that pinball doesn’t really know what direction it wants to go in. On one side there is the old guard, the men the grizzled players, on the other side there are the young people, the kids, the under dogs. The straight ladder format highlights pinball playing and strategy at the upper echelons, but it does not make for good tv. The format that was presented this year is…long, but it allowed you to root for the underdog and for a novice learn a lot about playing pinball.
So what direction does pinball want to go in? I understand the desire for sponsorships and to place pinball on the main stage, but nothing in a straight ladder tournament inspires someone sitting at home to join the pinball community. If the goal is to showcase good pinball and pander to the people who are already in leagues and go to tournament than the new format achieves that. If the goal is to grow pinball as a sport and a community than a story has to be created, under dogs are important, local players participating in this and knocking out the grizzled veterans are important to create drama; a reason for more people to become interested, watch the entire event, and perhaps go out and join a league.
1 Like
Sounds like I’ll strategically miss a few circuit events this year… seriously did we just hop in to a time machine
1 Like
To me this reads backwards. I think the “lowest seed” means the best incoming seed, such as #1.
Is this a full restoration of the original Circuit Final rules, then? I don’t remember if the “no same game twice in a row” rule was there…
1 Like
That would make a LOT more sense. High seed gets game and position
1 Like
I would say the opposite. The ladder format downplays top level strategies, an encourages people to play “not to lose”.
However, that does make for better TV because there is less nuance in player strategies, less confusion regarding “if X takes 3rd and Y takes 2nd, and Z takes 1st” advancement scenarios, and much shorter games that don’t involve someone chopping wood towards an almost uncatchable score.
2 Likes
From the rules “The order of players is determined with the top seed playing 1st, next highest seed playing 2nd, third highest seed playing 3rd, lowest seed playing in 4th position.”
I read it as seeded player #1 plays 1st, seeded player #5 plays 2nd, seeded player # 8 plays 3rd and seeded player #10 plays 4th.