I don’t agree with the general premise of what you are proposing here. Condition 6 is brutal for a player. 20 mins to go in the tournament, sorry that repair took 6 minutes, we are going to void 50 entries, you have no time to requalify on other machines. Better luck next time.
I see the problem with the rule:
Paragraph one refers to qualifying or playoffs/finals (the part about bringing back a busted machine has to be about finals only, but the part about doing their best to repair is always)
Paragraph two refers to playoffs/finals
Paragraph three refers to qualifying
Paragraph three has the 50% rule and paragraph three is pretty clear :
If the tournament is more than 50% through qualifying, scores count. If not scores are wiped. That’s it. There is nothing else in the rule now. No contiguous rule, no concern about how long the machine has been down, none of that. If the tourney is over half way through the scores count. Everything else in this thread is a proposed change to that rule. If that rule was in effect at FPF, according to the rule about disabled machines, it should have counted.
3 Likes
With all due respect, that sounds too complicated.
My proposal is simpler. TDs please communicate significant changes in a timely manner.
6 Likes
Perhaps 5 minutes for the second machine is too draconian. And I’m always open to simplification. Still, I think you need a repair clock and a previously identified replacement game. How we get from where we are to that place is definitely open for discussion.
Are you seriously proposing we now track repair downtime for every machine?
I don’t think that’s a practical solution. Adding one more thing to track for every machine means more opportunity for errors, more work, and fewer people who would be willing to run events.
5 Likes
Ok, YeOldPinPlayer, how about the opposite? If we don’t track downtime but track total uptime instead? Or perhaps we do it more subjectively?
At the midpoint of a Herb tournament don’t we have to consider how long each machine has been available to play? If a machine has not been available very often or has had plenty of lengthy outages I think TDs need to take those facts into account, yes? Then there needs to be a good faith effort to determine whether a game can “go the distance” and maintain availability for all to play fairly.
I agree that no one wants to get screwed out of good scores because of a late technicality. That’s no way to make friends!
Right now “50%” seems to intimate contiguous play. Maybe we go the other way and instead make the judgment more generalized based upon reliability. I think we just lack formality in the process. And people will zone in on a number or a percentage if we try to be too exact.
Maybe at the halfway calendar point of the tournament a formal up-or-down decision is made by the TD: Do we pull a game or not? The decision to pull a game has to be based on empirical data (e.g. The scoop keeps malfunctioning, drop targets don’t count points, etc.) Then and only then can substitution be allowed and points wiped. If it materially fails after that, then that’s it. Turn it off, all scores count.
1 Like
That sounds like a more elegant solution. Players get direct communication at a set time, while TDs have a clear cut rule in place. TDs can consult with their techs and known issues to make a final ruling, and players that may be affected will have enough time to react to the issues at hand.
It would seem something like 40% operational / 10% for repairs. For 22hrs that would be ~8hr45m operational and ~2hr15m for repairs. Obviously the percentages can be tweaked.
Can an replacement machine take any leftover clock time? say an game dies in way that can’t be fixed in time with time still left on the clock?
stoppage time up to 15-30 min?? in the last 30 min of qualifying time (players in que are guaranteed to play on the game when fixed or on any other game of there choice)
There seems to still be too much focus on the time a game is working/not working rather than the qualifying time available to adjust to any changes.
It should be simple:
Once a specified amount of qualifying time passes (60% seems fair), no erasing of scores, deleting games or adding new games. The 10% overage gives TDs and techs some last opportunity to fix the game or contemplate a final decision.
Most Herb Style events are aiming for a minimum of 20 hours to maximize the TGP component. So 50% is 10 hours and 60% is 12 hours. Once the 1/2 way qualifying point occurs in a 20 hour session, there are 2 more hours to fix the game and make a decision. That should be sufficient.
At the subject event, 50% qualifying time would have occurred at 9pm Friday. 60% would have occurred at almost 11:30 pm on Friday with about 1/2hour still left on day one.
At 1:30pm the next day (10am start) qualifying was at 17.5/22 = 80% complete. That seems too long of a delay and not enough time to adjust.
4 Likes
I’ve never been a fan of replacement machines in the papa ticket/herb/pump and dump formats. It gets weird adding machines that you know will have limited hours on and therefor benefit a few people dramatically with easier points to achieve and less players on a game to bleed out the points. If a game dies and I have to pull it that’s one thing and stinks and is out of my control (fingers crossed I’ve been able to get every game back online without pulling one yet) but I’m not adding limited hour games to a tournament. Hopefully my bank is big enough to not have a major impact having one less.
2 Likes
That is also a factor. With 6 games choose 4, one game being eliminated is going to have a major impact particularly with 100+ people in the event.
For reference, main had 11 choose 5.
1 Like