That’s in the work queue…
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I added text message notifications to Match Play over the summer (nb. not for Best Game tournaments… yet). It’s not being used very much but those who do use it swear by it. Let me know if you want to share notes (especially if you are planning on using Twilio as the service provider) 
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With the lack of a queue system and long lines, the interesting point here is that if people are waiting in line forever to play, how big could the pot possibly be
At a recent event, my son and I both ran out of qualifying time well before we ran out of our budgeted tourney money. Obviously we needed to have played better, but the point is we know for a fact we played fewer entries than we had in each of the previous 4 years (in which we both qualified each time). Therefore others probably played fewer entries as well, which would decrease the prize pool.
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this is the main point to the queue system that I love that @kdeangelo’s system does - at CAX it was busy with some long queues but you could go take a smoke or beer break and know where you stood and it really helped.
Karl, since INDISC is your hometown(-ish) tourney, you should show off the full capabilities since I am guessing it’ll be even bigger this year with being part of Arcade Expo too. Already have heard of some players coming in from pretty far away.
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At CAX I couldn’t do anything on my phone at all because the venue acts as one big faraday cage. I’m looking forward to being able to take breaks and enjoy the show at INDISC
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I’ll probably be in touch then @haugstrup as Twilio was the exact service I’ve been eyeing, or at least the cheapest I could find for my needs 
Staying semi-on topic, this will probably be an expense that comes out of tournament funds but a minor one at that.
I can’t remember how good/bad the museum is for cell service from last year. All I know is I should have a big fat pipe courtesy of John for the software and the stream! The CAX Hyatt…
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This is a topic I’m curious about, so i would appreciate feedback…
I assumed lack of transparency was to not get the IRS involved? I competed in PAPA and won $75 for qualifying in C finals and had to fill out a W9 form. I assume this was because I’m getting paid from the not-for-profit PAPA entity and its for accounting/auditing purposes. If PAPA circuit events were transparent and posted accounting info on website wouldn’t this be a red flag for the IRS? I’m not an accountant by any means but do these events really follow the requirements of the IRS?
Every time I’m at an event where decent money is won, its like someone in the mob is getting married and receiving envelopes of cash secretly and hidden. Its like the winners need to open it up to know how much they won or the communication is just verbal.
That’s certainly how we roll in Sweden 
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Eh… I think if people can make money running pinball tournaments, more power to them.
It’s the only way pinball will ultimately grow. Someone HAS to make money. We’ve been blessed with Kevin, PAPA, IFPA, but at some point, it has to make money if you want it bigger. The whole notion of “who makes how much/event” has to go away.
A herb format should never have a fixed prize pool and should always have a prize based on total entries collected.
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Where it all began . . .
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Going back to the original question of the thread…this came up last night. New player approached me with a sad story about how he really, really wanted to play but could not afford the $5 entry fee. Thinking about this discussion, I took pity and told him that if he promised to stick around for the whole tournament and pay attention to the rules, I would personally cover his entry fee this time around so he could try it.
Surprise! He didn’t pay attention when I explained the format, had to be tracked down to play his games, then peaced out early because the coin drop on the games was so expensive. Of course he was back at the bar after the event ended, buying pizza and drinks and playing video games.
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To add to my previous post, as far as making money or being compensated for running tournaments, I never did it but I don’t have a problem with it. Actually, I hope it starts to happen.
We’ve been extremely fortunate to have people like Kevin put on premier, high-class events but at some point every competitive activity has to turn the corner and start paying those involved to keep evolving at the top end.
When I ran PPE 2011 I took 3 days off work - Thurs for setup, Friday was the show open and Monday for cleanup. From Thurs - Sunday was 14+ hours of work per day. Prior to the show I spent around 100 hours prep’ing games, making plaques, working on the rules, recruiting volunteers, fighting with PPM, etc. blah blah violin.
Point being it’s an incredible amount of work and stress to put on a “fly-in” event, and while we all appreciate these events, in the end there is a relatively small handful of people who are both capable and willing to make such a sacrifice. When all was said and done, I had even more respect for the others that do it but I was also pretty sure afterward I didn’t want to do it again. Don’t get me wrong, it was personally very rewarding and the players seemed to have a good experience, but it was just too much goddamn work.
I went to a tournament last year run by Damien Charlety, and I think it was something like $5 registration fee and $1 per ticket. The $5 reg fee money was paid to his techs and the host (private collection). I thought that was super classy. I got 2nd and I don’t recall how much I won, but the games played great and the host provided barbecue. I felt like I got great value for my money.
For big events, like CAX or Expo, I think it’s entirely reasonable for people to get paid. A scenario where, say, any entry money over $x goes to the director sounds reasonable. That incentivizes the director to seek out sponsorship, think creatively about how to improve the event, and work to drive up attendance.
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PAPA is a brand name of the Replay Foundation, and the RF is in a different situation than most other tournaments / organizations. Our 501c3 distinction means we have annual audits that include both detailed paper trails on where our money goes and also on our physical inventory at HQ, so games can’t appear and disappear without raising a red flag. Without collecting IRS forms from our winners, our events would not be able to exist because we would fail these audits and get shut down. Keep in mind this only applies to the PAPA World Championships and ReplayFX / Pinburgh, because these are the only two competitions we are directly responsible for running.
PAPA Circuit Events are run by separate people / entities. We created the PAPA Circuit framework as a way to help other events gain recognition, but we do not own, run, or control them in any way other than by offering advice or volunteers. How the prize money or accounting procedures work at those events, and all the major decisions, are entirely at the hands of those event directors.
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In other words, vote with your boots.
No, this is bad. It’s how you end up with $1000 for first place on $8000 brought in during HERB style qualifying. It also demotivates players from paying for additional entries, because it’s not increasing the prizepool.
This is how raffles work. Fixed prizepool…and a potentially unlimited number of entries. This works great for charity events. Unless explicitly stated in advance, pinball tournaments are not assumed to be money raising events.
Taking an overall % makes much more sense than “any entry money over $”…and the director would still be incentivized. I think people are afraid of having to say: “90% payback”, because then everyone can ask questions about where the 10% goes.
A cleaner way of doing that is like how they do it in poker, where it’s $100 + $10, with $100 for the prizepool and $10 going to cover costs. That’s cool - as long as it’s explicit.
If a director wants to raise $10k cash in sponsorship and take it all for themselves that’s cool. I doubt the sponsor would enjoy that, but it’s better than taking prize money from the players.
There are many possible ways to help fund pinball tournaments, and the time/space involved to run them, but taking an undisclosed % of every entry fee is certainly the absolute worst way to do so.
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Obviously, there is also a huge difference between small, local, on location tournaments, and big expo type tournaments that require rented space. So it’s hard to make blanket statements since the intentions and costs vary so widely across the spectrum.
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That’s only true if that “limited” prize isn’t valuable to the players. For example, Pinburgh guarantees 4k to the winner of B with a fixed entry fee. I decided before I ever set foot in pittsburgh whether or not that was a value to me. Let’s say in an oversimplified way that they make 2k on top of that. Do you care? Does it change that they put on an excellent event, gave a large-ish cash prize and delivered excellent value? If ReplayFX made a million bucks off the show, I say more power to them.
That said, the exact method of compensation is debatable and will likely differ from one tournament to the next, but it’s good to see that at least the idea of “reasonable compensation” isn’t taboo any more.
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If the 6k was funded by player entries and they took 1/3 of that, then yes, I care.
If 4k came from player entries, and 2k came from sponsorships, then no, I don’t care.
Looking at the money in absolute terms is pointless. I play in plenty of local tournaments where they buy in is $5 and first place is $30. I wouldn’t in a million years play in a $5 tournament that paid $30 to first place and $3000 to the organizers of the tournament (because there were 600ish entries). That’s insulting to even have cash prizes…it’s a fundraising event.
To be clear, I would pay to play in an event with no prize money, but only if the money was going to a cause that I found worthy.
Essentially all I’m objecting to is: a maximum on the cash payouts (which allows for an infinite surplus for the organizers…taken directly from the entry fees).
In the case of Pinburgh, they are charging me $100 to get in the door (of ReplayFX) to cover their costs for the event, and then taking a $100 entry fee which does directly to the prizepool. That’s the right way to do it.
I’m happy to announce that with the revised TPF tourney format and payouts for TPF’16, that 100%+ of entry fees are being paid back to finalists. http://texaspinball.com/tpf/wp-content/images/2015/11/TPF-2016-Tournament-Quick-Guide-REVISED-110415.pdf
TPF organizers have listened to the past years’ feedback, and made these changes in hopes of the TPF tournament gaining the prestige that the overall show enjoys.
Besides a simpler, more traditional format, we will also be using Karl’s software for score-keeping, ranking, and queuing.
Please sign-up online and make the trip to the Dallas area in March to enjoy the TPF tourney and the TPF show!
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