Long live the Pro Walker Bomb!!
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Iām concerned about this too, Keefer, since what you call āwicked shimmiesā seem to be a very legitimate tactic.
[Definition: An outlane drain performed by repeatedly laterally nudging the machine in order to walk the ball up the outlane and back into play, all while avoiding a tilt.]
However, Joshās proposed verbiage in post #124 seems to be silent on this tactic. Therefore, if I read it correctly, the wicked shimmy survives.
Has anyone ever brought back a ball from below the outlane switch via a wicked shimmy?
Iāve seen some AWESOME ones especially on EMās, but not sure Iāve ever seen one from that deep down.
Itās too awesome to not be legal 
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thatās one of Kevinās SPECIAL KILLER NUDGE but I have never seen it done from past the outlane switch either.
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Hey Josh, While youāre amending the ruleset, would you consider clarifying the Death Saves section to explicitly address the Xenon example that Bob, Steve and Bowen referenced in posts #58 to #60 of this thread. I had always assumed that using the rubber post next to the drain to nudge the ball back into play was not allowed. I donāt disagree with Bowen ā it makes sense that the post was designed to help bring the ball back into play. It just never occurred to me that it would be allowed in competition.
Currently, the rule reads āIn the event that a drained ball bounces back into play without deliberate player action, such as in the case of a ālazarusā, this is considered the mechanical nature of pinball and the ball may be played. If this situation occurs repeatedly, and there is question as to whether the lazarus ball was naturally occurring or induced by the player, tournament directors may end the game in progress and award a score of zero.ā.
What would you suggest the language be changed to? Iāve always thought of Xenon as having a super-deep-down center post. I have done this in competition, and it was allowed (apologies to @FunWithBonus).
The way I might describe death saves and bangbacks as being different from other moves is:
āA ball lost via the outlanes which is brought back into play between the flippers by player induced ricochet off the apron, and the apron alone.ā
But however you describe it, it is still subjective.
I guess weāll just have to figure out what is legal and what is not, and then, as with some of the existing rules and situations, rely on players to self-police?
I played a Scorpion in a tournament last night that lazerusād or nearly did every single time the ball drained on the right outlane. My opponent got one for sure, and three almosts. Did you guys find a solution to your set up? From what I can tell, the ball is hitting the right most edge of the left side of the apron and popping back in. Iād have mentioned this to the operator last night, but since he wanted to talk to me about āhow sweet the game wasā while I was playing a tournament match, I didnāt feel up to it.
Seems like the game didnāt get picked after that round so the issue never would have come up again anyhow. Hopefully the location players donāt mind it!
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I think lazari are cool. It takes skill to capitalize on the opportunity.
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Agreed! But when youāre playing a 5 ball Scorpion in competition and it Lazaruses pretty consistently, it makes for a very long game.
Why Scorpion is on 5 ball there is beyond me. First Embryon (which rivals Spiderman in game length) and now Scorpion which I have literally watched a 2+ hour game of (with REG). Oh well, itās a āsweet gameā right? 
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Larry DeMarās first game. So YEAH! Itās awesome! Actually its rules are pretty freakinā sweet. I guess it has the standard āupper playfieldā problem. PAPAās Scorpion with the 50+ hittable spinner is real fun.
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Iāve always felt this way too. I think if you can do it without tilting and without hitting or kicking the machine then great. I get that it extends game times for the top players but that can be addressed to a certain extent with the tilt sensitivity or probably even some target foam on the apron.
Iām only about 1/6th of the way through this thread, so I donāt know how this all plays out, but Iām going to insert my opinion here anyways. Because itās the internet.
Iām in the camp that the BSD, Avatar, and even WOF moves should all be considered legal. As a community, we learn new things about games all the time, which affect the usability of that game in a tournament scenario. If you want to use Avatar and donāt want someone to be able to shove the game hard enough to score a link shot, set the tilt tighter. If thatās not feasible, donāt use the game in your tournament.
As far as how to differentiate in the rules (and in our minds) the difference between something like this and a death save/bang back, I offer the following. In my mind, what should be illegal, is a purposeful action that causes the specific ball in play to be returned to the playfield after it has gone past an outlane switch or crossed the plane of the flippers through the center. Using the ball, or the machine to activate another mode which causes ANOTHER ball to be launched, is fair game.
So in my mind, the difference is an action which causes the drained ball to come back into play (illegal) vs. activating something which causes a new ball to be launched (should be legal in my mind).
Yes, and what about hitting an action button which causes an add-a-ball after all balls have drained out of MB on ACDC or GOT? I just suggested this verbiage in a prior post but hereās what I think the rules should be:
It is illegal to use a purposeful action that causes the specific ball in play to be returned to the playfield after it has gone past an outlane switch or crossed the plane of the flippers through the center. Using the ball, an action button, or the machine itself to activate a feature which causes ANOTHER ball to be launched, is legal at any time the game will allow it.
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A solution for Avatar I heard that I donāt think Iāve seen mentioned here would be to change the game settings to not allow the ball to be captured in Link at all. Then youād have to hit the Link target with the active ball in play every time and wouldnāt have a chance to do the āshove to start multiballā at all.
I donāt have an Avatar handy to check the software settings but if thatās one of the options that seems like the easiest solution for competition play to me.
re: āwell walker shove bombāā¦
To those of you who have success pulling this off, does it translate from machine to machine? The one I play regularly has a moderate tilt and Iāve never been able to get it to budge on an aggressive forward shove. Am I just that weak, or are some Wellverines easier to move than others?
My wife says death saves are illegal because they screw up the carpet in the game room. 
In all seriousness, this is definitely an interesting thread. It would be hard to to make something like this illegal without some very specific verbiage. On my WoZ, whenever the ball hits the left outlane, I immediately hold up the left flipper and start nugding the game trying to impart as much speed on the ball as possible. Maybe 5% of the time it comes flying out, hits the center post and pops back into play.
Would something like that be illegal?
I donāt want to live in a world where thatās not legal. Itās far too awesome.
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