There is no such thing as an assisted lazarus 
(and these arenāt the droids youāre looking for)
The move Bob describes sounds just like that. I do it all the time. Since most games of that era are TEG it really adds to the risk/ reward 
If she accidentally tripped itās a win, if she did it on purpose itās a DQ?
Do you ask the runner, or do you ask the other 9 runners independently? 
Ultimately the article has best reason why itās legal:
āThe answer is thus as easy as it gets: Itās legal because itās legal. Period.ā
1 Like
Hah, similarly in the menās Keirin (Olympic cycling) they had to do two restarts. Rules say anyone passing the pace cycle prior to race start is dqād.
No one dqād, and commentary suggests even with cameras itās too difficult to say who should be dqād
Was absolutely thinking of this thread as it all happened (twice). Having a rule is one thing. Enforcing it is something else entirely
Iāll just point out now that Iāve skimmed this 100 post thread that Iāve always argued that the death save ruling is totally arbitrary and stupid and this argument only furthers my opinion.
It shouldnāt matter when you shove the game. Ball is the referee. And/or the tilt bob.
8 Likes
I have used the bottom of the flipper to dribble a ball off the apron and lazarus it back into play without nudging. It sure felt like a skill move (admittedly, low probability) when I did it. Is that illegal?
3 Likes
That sounds awesome.
Iām going to try the Koz WOF bang bang free spin move next time at league at Keeferās. As long as my flipper stays down and the ball doesnāt come up between the flippers, Iām all good. Note that Iām just banging the machine and doing a bang bang so the ball hits the free spin switch to serve a new ball into play. Bang Back is forcefully bringing that ball youāre playing on ābackā into play between the flippers.
1 Like
Well, in my opinion, death saves should be allowed. Iāve heard both arguments: that TDās didnāt want competitors to get hurt, and that TDās didnāt want machines to get hurt. Personally, Iāve seen pins on location take much more abuse than would typically be caused by a death saveā¦ and if someone wants to hurt themselves, well, let them. Players make plenty of other moves that can potentially cause injury, and we donāt ban those.
Awwww, cāmon, itās not that bad, is it? 
This.
1 Like
Come on now, donāt pull a pinburgh and bastardize the game out of existence (looking at you sopranos). Really, just set it up well and this wonāt happen.
1 Like
I was thinking the exactly same thing. You still have to get there.
I thought part of the argument was to Avoid the extended ball time that players that master this can get (unlimited game) plus the kind of ācheatingā aspect of it.
Exploit vs cheat can be a fuzzy line at times. And where is the ādrainā limit can be tough due to the varied pin designs.
If a pin was experiencing a beneficial malfunctionā¦ Say extra switch hits if you shake the gameā¦ We wouldnāt let a player sit and exploit that. But if it was minor and not really something you could not sit and pillage with the ball heldā¦ And it was applied evenlyā¦ Play on?
IMO this avatar example is a game specific issue and if the td left the game in that conditionā¦ Then itās fair game. Itās how the game is coded and runs in normal op. I donāt see it any different from dirty pool, short plunges to take advantage of pf validation, etc
Is āassisted saveā really any different from exploiting the knowledge of how pf validation works on some games and repeatedly getting a ball save? That ball drained tooā¦ But through player choice of actions itās returned to play. And TDs killed that at Pinburg with that shooter removal
Iāll nominate you to handle Avatar setup at all future IFPAās 
Which was ridiculous lol. āTheres this thing that actually is pretty hard to pull off, and it takes a good amount of skill and game knowledge. If you mess it up it can result in a drain and youd be worse off versus just plunging normally. But really good players can do this thing and get rewarded with a multiball, SO LETS TAKE THE SHOOTER ROD OFFā
/end rant 
Pinburgh rounds need to be completed within a fixed time frame, and playtesting (Fight Club!) showed that Sopranos games lasted exorbitantly long and could threaten the timeline of the tournament. The choice was between removing Sopranos altogether, or using it in this fashion. The same change was made to Ripleyās. Even with the changes, both of these machines ran on the long side during Pinburgh.
There were many other games where āthree-switch madnessā was still plenty valid, but hopefully you understand why the decision was made.
4 Likes
When I first saw itā¦ I was likeā¦ wowā¦ dedication
I donāt like the short plunge to multiball gimmick on sopranos since it changes the balance of things so much.
It just goes to show the amount of love and thought that they put into the banks 
Seems more like skillful plunging and ball control as opposed to a gimmick. I showed this technique to a 4/player group in a recent local tourney. They thought it was neat and wanted to try it, however when they tried, they could not do it. My opponents congratulated me for pulling it off and did not accuse me of using a trick.
5 Likes
I agree. I practice this constantly on GOT. Sure, I have it down pretty good, but Iāve also logged a less than 3 million point score during a tournament trying this as well. Haha
2 Likes
Hey gang, just got here, whatād I miss?
13 Likes
What would be your thoughts on this situation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vh23SVO5dM&feature=youtu.be&t=3655
The ball was below the flippers. Gene nudged the ball with the help of the flipper to get the ball back in play.
2 Likes