Some of the changes noted here are being implemented for this year. Most notably, no events will be forced off of the Circuit based on the survey results. Events at the bottom of the survey rankings will be placed into the voting to earn their way back on through that method.
One of the goals of the Circuit is to spread competitive pinball by promoting the best events. If we only let people who play in Circuit events vote on Circuit events I’m not sure that increases the visibility of the Circuit events or competitive pinball.
I’m actually fine with events in the voting cycle to ‘lobby’ people to vote for them. It shows a desire and enthusiasm to be added to the Circuit and a passion to promote the event. It also increases awareness among non-pinball folks who may not even know such a thing exiisted.
We specifically don’t tell the events what they need to run, just that they need to follow the IFPAPA rules. We try and help events not make catastrophic mistakes, but that is about the extent of our interference.
The multitude of formats is one of the things I really like about the Circuit.
If a format is junk, I would assume that the players would indicate so on the surveys. The TD could then change it, or not.
A tournament doesn’t even technically have to be eligible for WPPR points to be on the PAPA Circuit.
“I’d actually consider dropping both PAPA “A” and Pinburgh; these are “majors” and don’t need support from the Circuit to get people to attend. Use those two event spots to get other locations into the game.”
Dropping two of the highest rated events on the PAPA Circuit every year seems counter-intuitive.
Just wanted to chime in on this because The Sanctum was the most fun I’ve had at an event in the past year. While I agree it’s not for everybody, I don’t think the schedule is enough to consider it a “fringe format” because that sort of thing is totally subjective. For many people, the Pinburgh schedule is too grueling/intense, but I don’t think that makes it a fringe format either.
I’m hoping to see The Sanctum back on the Circuit this year because they offer a unique experience while providing a very well run test of skill on a great collection of games.
With the expanded number of events to 20 (or 18 for 2016, I can’t count), I personally believe that bringing circuit events to different parts of the country is good for expanding pinball and introducing to new players. Maybe there are local leagues or weeklies, example Flipper’s in the OBX, where players don’t have much opportunity for ‘bigger’ events. These events then bring highly skilled players to these locations where the local players get the opportunity to play with and witness what great pinball is like. It helps invigorate these players into becoming better than just winning their local weeklies as they may not have realized just how good pinball players can be.
A simple example at my recent Pinholics Anonymous tournament at my house last December. The finals comprised Steven Bowden and one of our newer local Virginia players, Eric Schoch. Eric has only played a handful of events, an up-and-coming player, and was playing in the a finals group with Steven. I stood next to Eric while Steven was playing STLE and told Eric that this is a great opportunity for him to be in a match with one of the best players in pinball. I told him to watch what he does, what decisions he makes, and especially what he avoids doing. Of course as I began telling him this I noticed Steven was about to finish the Vengeance # 3 mode, and called it play-by-play until Steven got the double shot to Sudden Death for 40+ million in one shot. If that didn’t make an impression on a new player, nothing will.
Also, having a variety of formats helps too. MAGfest which we just completed is somewhat unique in that it doesn’t have any cash payouts, but also no entry fees. We provide MagDollars which are redeemable in the market place. This is definitely not something I recommend other tournaments do, it just happens to be the situation we’re in with this tournament. We still get a great show of players and a lot of new players, but also miss out on some great players since there is not payout. However, I feel that this particular tournament format just gives back to the ‘normal’ player that ‘subsidizes’ the winnings of the best players in big events. And I’m stuck with it due to the show restrictions.
Sanctum is another example of a unique format. I have never attended but I think having such a unique format simply prevents the same-old same-old formats at every circuit event. Variety will make the overall circuit even better year-to-year. Expo is another example of a unique finals format with that super bracket.
Not disputing their popularity, just pointing out that the Circuit need not consist of just the most popular large events. IFPA and EPC are big and popular, but like PAPA and Pinburgh, they’re majors. IFPA would be an issue since it’s eligibility restricted, of course. There’s a reason I chose the word “consider” rather than “recommend”: to make sure people actually considered the pros and cons of such an option, which I don’t recall seeing mentioned before.
I made it a goal to see if I could make the Circuit Finals and attended a bunch of events thanks to my work travel schedule. I really enjoyed all the events from Pinburgh to PAPA to 24-hours to Bat City to Cactus Jacks & Buffalo. A lot of them were kinda similar but the match play ones were kinda my faves. Wanted to go to Magfest but had a shoot pop up that conflicted.
I think the diversity of the events is what makes them all fun and maybe more spread out regionally would be cool in the future. I loved 24-hours format b/c it’s unique and would like to see other more unique formats. I think the WPPR thing will negate people from trying anything too unique b/c even though @PAPA_Doug said that you don’t have to have WPPRs to be on the Circuit, a lot of people might not travel for an event without WPPRs. The money is also irrelevant to me but that’s mostly b/c I never place in the money
Maybe fringe was the wrong word. How about extreme format? I agree that Pinburgh is tough on the body and mind. Certainly the most grueling tourney I’ve participated in.
Not really relevant to this conversation:
Have to agree that Sanctum was so much fun. However, I think there are real safety concerns when it comes to a lot of people getting behind the wheel after 24 hours of pinball. Sanctum might be just as fun as a two day event. And then we’d get to have a real party hang on Saturday night during the break. Like a baby Pinburgh (cos most of us only play pinburgh for two days anyway).
Us breaking up the event into 2 days destroys the core foundation of the event! Wouldn’t be the same. No one has to drive straight home. Our parking lot is plentiful and people do crash in their cars as Bo pointed out. We finish nice and early since we don’t stop Even pick daylight saving weekend to gain an extra hour for everyone to recover.
I’m totally for more unique formats. Having every circuit event be a pump and dump gets boring. More unique events encourages people to travel more and try other events. I’m hearing some great things coming for next years circuit
Judging by the likes in this thread, the Sanctum tourney has a lot of fans. Many sports have extreme or “ironman” type of competitions these days. No reason why pinball shouldn’t have one too. That said, I would agree that it’s extreme format that’s not for everyone. Younger and older folks specifically. While I’m confident I could do it, it doesn’t sound fun to an older guy like me. 20 years ago, hell yes. I’d be all in. Have any older or younger folks participated in the past?
The thing that really made me want to reply was the negative mention of the Herb format. Take a look at INDISC qualifying results so far:
18 of the top 24 qualifiers so far aren’t from Socal. Yes, it being a circuit event plays a part, but other than PAPA and Pinburgh, can any event come close to this? 75% of the qualifiers from at least 400 miles away? The Herb format attracts the best players, period.
Getting back on topic, I can see one circuit event having this (Sanctum) format, but just one. Not sure if attracting out of the area players is a consideration for adding an event to the circuit, but I sure do enjoy seeing all my friends from out of town at a tourney. It is most definitely something I consider when deciding to attend an event.
Even pick daylight saving weekend to gain an extra hour for everyone to recover.