💾 This is an archived post from tiltforums.com. Tilt Forums ran from 2015 to 2026 as a hub for discussion about competitive pinball. This site represents a static version of the site which has been kept online for historical purposes.

Mobile Camera Rig: Plans and Materials

spraynard

I recently built a mobile camera rig for tournament streaming, and used it for the first time recently at the Space City Open. Since them, I’ve had quite a few people contact me about it wanting to build something similar. Since there is apparently demand, I figured I would post the materials and details here. This post focuses on just the rig itself, but if you have questions about the camera gear I’m happy to help.

Here’s what the rig looks like without any camera gear.

Here it is with camera gear, over a machine:

The biggest advantage of the rig is that you can use it to easily film a large number of games without having to put a separate camera over every game, run cables, etc. The rig was designed so that it can easily squeeze between machines that are very close together. It can be widened to fit super wide bodies (e.g., paragon), and can be broken down to fit in your car.

You can see how easy it is to move between games here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7T0_Wl-ir0&feature=youtu.be&t=11291. Game change starts at 3:08:11:

The entire rig is made from aluminum extrusion, ordered from 8020.net. Credit to @kdeangelo here. I was originally planning on having the rig fabricated locally, but Karl happened to be building a similar rig and pointed me to 8020. This is a way more cost effective and lighter than steel, which would have been something like $600.

The bill of materials is here. The total cost is about $340. Shipping was $32 to Texas. Note that I used 1515-Lite aluminum. You can save money and make it lighter by using ultra-lite. If i had a do over, I would have gone with the smooth version, purely for aesthetic reasons. Also note that I did not include the wheels in the bill of materials. Do not order the wheels from 8020 unless you don’t care about throwing away your money, as they are ridiculously over priced. Go to home depot or order on amazon for a fraction of the price.

This design works fine–you can just order all those parts and be good to go. However, if you like to engineer things, I’d encourage you to try and improve on it. Take some time to learn about 8020. They offer a wide variety of options for how to build something similar. For example, I’m not sure how necessary the 45 degree supports are. You could probably just use bigger plates at the joins and counterbores. My original thinking was that they would help prevent buckling at the bottom. Maybe they do, but I haven’t tested it without them. @kdeangelo built a similar rig without them, but also used bigger plates and 3" wide aluminum.

A word of caution on ordering from 8020 – shipping times can be very long. Longer than you’re used to with most online orders. The time will increase if you add any special cuts or counter bores. The nice thing about this design is that it only requires a few straight cuts. My order shipped less than 2 weeks after I ordered. Karl’s design used counter bores and took maybe twice that long.

For me personally, this is a game changer for tournament streaming. I streamed a few tournaments using 20+ c920 cameras, running cables, calibrating each one…it was an absolute nightmare. This makes life sooooo simple. With this rig, I can easily set up everything I need to stream the entire event in less than one hour. I hope to start streaming a lot more of our local events now.

stevevt

https://www.8020.net ?

chuckwurt

Can you adjust the sides to accommodate wide bodies?

ErikG

Looks like the cross bar has more length to go wider.

How do people like playing with this in place? Rarely have I had a game recorded but I like the over the backbox set ups since they are less in your face.

spraynard

oops! yes, fixed

jdelz

.

spraynard

yes. It can be widened to fit over a paragon, which i think is the widest game.

kdeangelo

Mine is slightly different from @spraynard’s as I used 1530 Ultra-Lite. Twice as deep, as you can see in the photos below. Heavier I’m sure than the 1515, but it’s super stable with zero wobble. Don’t even have to lock the wheels in place when moving it.

3 cameras, fully wireless, couldn’t be happier. My rig is en-route to Free Play Florida right now to cover that tournament.

spraynard

@karl did you get a third wireless transmitter working?

kdeangelo

Yes, I did! I’m using a Nyrus Orion for the 3rd camera. There’s around a 250ms delay on it so I’m using it for the DMD/display camera. A little less noticeable there.

hisokajp

is that the future for INDISC? :slight_smile:

kdeangelo

We’re still doing individual cameras on the main bank games, since we’re insane, but this will allow us to stream Classic, Women’s, and High Stakes finals.

chuckwurt

Any way to have two of these running at once with three cams on each?

spraynard

Two rigs? Why?

Would you want both active on the screen at the same time? If so, you’ll need 6 hdmi capture cards. If you don’t want both active, you could use hdmi switches to choose which to use as input.

chuckwurt

More games to stream. Have less down time. One game finishes, then pop over to another if still in progress.

I don’t like switching mid game either.

kdeangelo

The problem would be the wireless HDMI interfaces. Doubt you can get 6 consumer grade transmitters working concurrently.

DEADFLIP

Beats this rats nest. Ha!

This is the 2 cam wireless rig I used for Power 100. Only 2 wireless camcorders because my laptop can’t handle 3 external capture cards.
Used “room cams” for the third camera.

chuckwurt

This seemed to work fine. I enjoyed the stream.

DEADFLIP

Thanks!
It worked great, just wasn’t very pretty to look at. It was also a little precarious on that carpet.

spraynard

For those thinking about building one, it’s a good time to buy!

neilmcrae

@kdeangelo do you have a BOM for what you ordered please? don’t want to experiment too much with shipping to the UK :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Neil.

kdeangelo

Ok, put my BOM together since there’s a sale. My BOM.

hisokajp

360 + 50 shipping? stiff! and there is no caster on that BOM right? that and all the material that’s a pretty expensive Guillotine!

chuckwurt

I haven’t been able to make the numbers work with another portable rig.

I’ve either researched a solution that barely saves you any money and isn’t as convenient, or it much more expensive.

TomGWI

After drooling over Karl’s portable rig at FPF I decided to make my own.
I wanted to try and make one that was inexpensive and very portable as I New I would need to get through doorways and had to do it relatively quick. I also wanted to be able to get between games that were next to each other head to head and could go from standard to widebody fast (old Bally’s). I also wanted to have the cameras in place like Karl’s so I didn’t have to do too much adjusting on the fly with the exception of changing scoring from a DMD type game to a 4 player early SS.

I took 2 mic stands and basically made this.

Obviously the picture of paragon I have the bar low and not what someone would stream at. Just wanted to show that the height is adjustable because I used the mic stands.

I did a test video so you can see it in action.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/337352891

The quality of the test video was garbage as I was testing the limits of my wireless HDMI through walls and I had my computer and mic 2 rooms over. The video shows me moving it from paragon to Dialed In. I was really testing it out as I made the rig that morning and was streaming a tournament the next day.
It’s not pretty but it works good and was pretty inexpensive.

The stream went well and the portable rig worked great.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/337620958

A couple of times I forgot to go back to my computer and put the camera moving scene on. You can actually watch me moving the rig from game to game. lol

neilmcrae

Thanks Karl!

neilmcrae

annoyingly they look like they ship internationally but when you check out and put the address in it defaults to collect at depot :frowning: :angry:

They have a local disty but knowing british effort/service levels I’m not holding out too hopeful!

chuckwurt

Getting my order together. I want to make sure I get wheels that will be compatible with this rig. Will these work? Do I need any more hardware than what is in the BOM posted in the first post?

spraynard

I use these wheels now: 4 Inch Total Lock Caster - Polyurethane Wheel - 3/8"-16 x 1-1/2" Threaded Stem Set of 4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W5TAS8I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_CyqxCbF0N7K71

They will work with the plates in the BOM.

TomGWI


My new rig! :grin:

TomGWI

Big tournament tomorrow.

chuckwurt

Good luck! Mobile rigs for the win!!

chuckwurt

Hey @kdeangelo, just circling back on your third camera HDMI transmitter. So if I get one of these Nyrus Orions, then I have 2 of the mono price ones, it should be plug and play? Just use the Nyrus for the DMD/score display?

I am using 3 sony cams, and 3 Elgato Cam links for my rig.

Final question. Should I have one power pack https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G1XH46M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For each cam/hdmi transmitter? Then I plan to have 3 spares charged up as backups if needed as they take forever to charge up.

thanks!

YeOldPinPlayer

You should pose this ? to @spraynard as well. I don’t think he had to recharge his rig during TPF and it was streaming at least most of Saturday and a few hours Sunday, maybe some on Friday too.

spraynard

These 27200 mAh batteries from monoprice will run a sony camcorder and a monoprice transmitter for over 12 hours: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15120

I’m absolutely floored by how long these things last (as you note though, they take over a day to charge). they are cheap enough that you can get some backups, but i’ve rarely had to use the backups.

chuckwurt

Much better price than the one I have too. Thanks!

YeOldPinPlayer

Specs say “Input Power 5 VDC, 2000mA”, which should take it from empty to full in 13h 36m with the factory(?) charger.
A charger like this Anker or this Ravpower puts out max 2400 amps per port and MAY charge 20% faster if your device will accept the higher current but good luck figuring that out. Probably have to test on your own. Check the output on the factory charger, it may be rated for higher output than the listed specs on the website anyway.
@spraynard I do have an older model of the Ravpower unit with a claimed 2400 mA output, you’re welcome to do some testing next time we’re together. I usually have this Antigravity battery with me in case someone needs a jump start so if you do run short of power you can use it.

kdeangelo

You also need something to strip the HDCP from the Nyrus. I use a cheap monoprice HDMI splitter.

The battery packs I have lasted for the entire Nationals/Women’s stream. I’ve tested them at just over 15 hours!

chuckwurt

So are you saying I just add an hdmi splitter to one end of Nyrus? Then just use one side of the splitter? Do I put it at the transmitter or the receiver?

kdeangelo

The receiver. This is the one I use: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15651

chuckwurt

Sweet. Already have these. One less thing! Haha. Thanks again.

GeekGamerTV

Well thanks to all the great feedback in this thread, I have decided to take the plunge and pull the trigger on a mobile-rig to complement the wired cameras. I think having both is the ideal situation if you can do it (as it allows greatest production capability - as was handy last year during the NWPC).

Hopefully everything will arrive in time for the 2019 Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show. (I will have it setup for use during seminars, casual play on the show floor, and the Women’s Tournament Final).

Planning on lots of streaming coverage! Can’t wait!

chuckwurt

Went with @spraynard 's plans and ordered everything last night! Thanks again to Phil and Karl and everyone else for sharing these with the group. Hopefully these rigs will become common place and really help all the tournament streamers out there.

spraynard

The Monclas in Texas also just built one. Curious how many there are total. It’s a mobile rig revolution!

KingNine

Built, set up and running. We just aren’t doing wireless yet. Before we built this we put all the computer equipment on a cart with long USB cables so right now we are just wheeling the cart with the rig to see if we want to get the wireless stuff or not. Even if we didn’t buy the rig we should have upgraded from the logitech webcams long ago! What a difference in quality. (this is Dennis btw)

chuckwurt

I got all my parts for @spraynard ‘s rig design. Hey Phil, I noticed that your picture it appears to have 6 of the 45 degree supports when your BOM calls for 4. Does that mean the top two on your rig are unnecessary?

Thanks.

spraynard

Actually, that was a mistake, ugh. However, I think it will be fine without them. Karl’s doesn’t use them. @KingNine have you had any issues without the upper 45 degree supports?

chuckwurt

No worries. I can always add them later. Just wanted to be sure. Thanks for looking into it.

spraynard

Another thing you can do is use two on the bottom and two up top. Just put the bottom ones on opposite sides.

chuckwurt

Good idea. I may do that.

WWJ

I’m guessing this is the right thread to ask this question, but another could be opened up if necessary.

I’ve got a frame I’m happy with (bespoke made),
I’ve got 3 cameras - Logitech C920 HD(https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006A2Q81M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

I just don’t have a laptop that’s capable of (powerful enough) live streaming (although it can record, which I can then download).
I don’t want to break the bank so am after recommendations as to a suitable laptop.

What specs should I be looking for as a minimum?

recommendations for a microphone also welcome.
Cheers

spraynard

This thread is more for the physical rigging. Check out Twitch/livestream setups. for more general streaming help.

chuckwurt

All done! Went pretty smooth and seems plenty sturdy even without two of the supports.

Hoping I can use this at home too and ditch my wired hanging rig. I’ll be testing the wireless transmitters as my basement is a 90 degree turn from the computer so I’m worried about line of sight.

Very excited!!

spraynard

Looking sweet! i was suggesting flipping one of your bottom supports to the opposite side, so you have one in front, one in back. but I honestly doubt it matters. You have smooth floors so you wont have much stress when its moving.

If you’re using the monoprice transmitters, you’ll definitely have line of site issues. If you connect your receivers to your computer with some long cables, you can move your receiver stand as needed to maintain line of site.

chuckwurt

Good idea on the long hdmi cables. I may do just that.

KingNine

We are not having any issues withouth the other two angle supports. We left them off the top as the bottom will get the most stress and the angle braces the join the top bar to the supports seemed plenty strong enough. If I had my druthers I’d probably rather have them but so far it is strong and secure! Where I think they might help is the feet seem to come inward about an inch from the top and they probably help keep them at a perfect 90 degrees. Not having them will make adjusting the width that much easier too.

misterschu

just put up some mirrors

GeekGamerTV


Building Day!

GeekGamerTV

And now… complete! Thanks @kdeangelo for the BOM and inspiration! It’s awesome!

recordboy

good stuff!

neilmcrae

any of you carried one of these on a plane? how did it go? what sort of case/bag are you using?

Neil

neilmcrae

i7, SSD, 16G memory, Nvidia or AMD graphics…

Neil.

owlnonymous

I want one of these for the house but the BOM is too much dollars for me. I also do a lot of my streams from location. Did @kdeangelo ever update his idea for a more mobile setup?

kdeangelo

I have my updated one but the BOM isn’t that much lower since it relies completely on counterbores and the connectors for them. You might be able to get away with flat plates but you’d need a bunch, and I haven’t priced that option out.

I’ll post my updated BOM once I finally use it this week.

misterschu

A functionally similar, albeit sloppier/less sturdy, rig made of pvc or steel pipe from a big box store would be a lot cheaper. Likewise a rig made of 2x4s.

chuckwurt

With this rig, how is everyone organizing the score cam for EMs? Is the score come on the right side of the rig or left side? I have it on the right side and it’s making it hard to see Grand Prix player 1. I wonder if putting it to the left side of the rig will help and then just maybe cut off the less important digits of the other players?

KingNine

(I accidently posted this in the twitch live stream thread instead of here where my original comment was so I’m posting here too. Sorry for doubling up on it if you see it in both places) Just thought I’d follow up on the upper bracket comment I made a couple of months ago. I had stated we didn’t think we needed them but now think they would be more advantageous than not having them. During weekly streaming while we have plenty of time to move the rig we really don’t need them as bad. But when streaming the finals of the Shoot Again Shootout and weaving around people and objects the wheel hit a foot and the leg bent in some. Just enough to force us to pull it back out so it would fit around the machine. It wasn’t destructive to the unit and it was easily fixed. Also we have noticed a propensity for the legs to naturally toe inward on their own a little. We’ve straigtened and tighgtened the bolts a couple of times but now just keep the legs a couple of inches wider to compensate. We are either going to rob two of the four angle brackets from the base or suck it up and order 2 more for the top. If you’re ordering a new one I suggest making sure you get 6 of those and you won’t have to worry about anything. Loving the rig and it makes streaming the Pinball Mafia weekly stream so much more pleasureable for us. We used to have so much gear and cables to move making us start to work so much earlier. It was a godsend for the tournament for sure!

KingNine

I noticed you didn’t use any angle brackets in the picture above. Are you having any issues like we just did? I know it will work without any it’s just not as rigid.

neilmcrae

We are also using the denser aluminium though? See Karl’s BOM up above. I can’t imagine anything bending on that unless you take a Thor like hammer to it!

neilmcrae

Just to add - the one I built is super rigid…

KingNine

Thanks Neil. We used the more rigid one as well. The real issue was what I listed above. If it took a bigger hit it might be an issue. I just don’t like flexibility in it. If it stays on nice smooth surfaces and never gets bumped it will be fine. After the shoe incident I wanted it a little more stiff.

gammagoat

I have kind of lost the thread on which HDMI transmitters people are using. Which 3 are people using, and is there an preference between them. I am considering trying getting one for my playfield and using picam for player and score.

chuckwurt

If using two or less at once, the monoprice ones are great.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=302&cp_id=10110&cs_id=3020104&p_id=16049&seq=1&format=2

If adding a third use this

Nyrius Orion Home Wireless HDMI… https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FPQJNTZ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

You’ll also need a splitter on the receiver end of this transmitter in order for it to work right.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=302&cp_id=30201&cs_id=3020102&p_id=15651&seq=1&format=2

misterschu

You’re using the splitter as a joiner?

chuckwurt

@kdeangelo said it splits out something that the transmitter is doing. Haha. Not sure. Just know that it doesn’t work without a splitter on the receiver end.

misterschu

Ah misunderstood your post. The splitter is being used only for the nyrius transmitter

neilmcrae

its adding in HDCP signalling otherwise you get nothing on the encoder. I got this one in the UK and it works with it also:

Slamtilt

Is Anybody watching for any particular gear for Prime Day coming up?

Slamtilt

Also, which mounts are you all using for the mobile rigs?

zaphX

I ordered from this BOM - I’d personally recommend changing it to 6 of the 45 degree supports rather than 4.

The bottom was nice and steady when I was done, but the top has a little more wobble than I’d like. I am adding 2 more supports to correct that.

Can anyone recommend widgets for securing cameras and mics to the 80/20 bars?

chuckwurt

Yeah I think the BOM is short 2. I experienced the same. Maybe @spraynard can update for the 6 instead of 4.

spraynard

Dammit I thought I updated that.

A “fix” is to only use two 45 degree supports on the bottom, one left/front, one right/back

WWJ

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00SIRAYX0?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I find these perfect.
Easily adjustable and they hold the position firm

spraynard

These particular clamps work great for the square 80/20

CAMVATE Camera Clamp Mount for… https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018RMBCR2?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

They are out of stock on amazon, but they have similar styles ones

Edit: not sure if that link works. Here is a similar one https://amzn.to/2Mms9hc

neilmcrae

Karl,
Suspect your are super busy with INDISC but if you can post the BOM for your new lightweight stand I’d really appreciate it :smiley:

Thanks,
Neil.

desertt1

I actually did make one out of 2x4’s since I have those on hand in the shop. 2 biggest things of note for me so far.

  1. One leg was slightly warped. Before assembly it doesn’t look too bad. When assembled it’s bad enough that the lower parts of the upside down T are not parallel enough. This means that I have to flex it a little to get past the legs of a game. The back wheels are closer together than the fronts. I can fix this with a straighter piece of wood, but something to take note of.

  2. My upper cross beam is cut to give a little space when over a standard body. Well, then a Future Spa came home. With the 80/20 frames as long as your cross section is wide enough you can loosen the fasteners and adjust the gap. A wooden frame bolted together isn’t as simple. I’ll probably end up cutting a wider upper cross beam to allow for use with wide games, but that might cause issues with narrow games if the games aren’t spaced really far apart.

Casters were simple though. I got some with threads and measured the major and minor thread diameters. I got a drill bit half way between, drilled out the lower beams, and threaded the casters right in. Nice and snug and very simple to do.

normaj

Hi all! It appears I made a major blunder when purchasing equipment for a home rig from 80/20. I never asked them to do the counterboring in the two tall vertical pieces. Now I have four straight pieces of extruded aluminum with no way to fasten them together. (There are no holes for the butt fasteners!)

I would hate to send all the vertical pieces back just to have them do the counterboring. I keep wondering if you guys know of some sort of alternate fastening technique that will provide the same or similar strength to the butt fasteners. It can be something scientific or something like a home remedy. I really do not know any machinists nearby, but if that’s the path to take then I’ll take that.

Anyway, thanks in advance!

spraynard

Which parts list did you order from? The original one at the top of this thread was designed to not require counterbores.

mwelsh

Google around for a local 80/20 supplier near you. You should be able to drop the pieces off and have them drill the counterbores for you. (I’ve done this; I can neither confirm nor deny that I made the same mistake on one of my pieces.) Good luck! :slight_smile:

HurryUpPinball

Hello Spraynard. Thanks for the list of materials and info. I run the HurryUpPinball YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzdHAPosu-ImTOht-WjUTAg?view_as=subscriber) and made a quick video tutorial on how to assemble this rig (video is roughly 7 mins). It includes a link to this forum for info and parts. I just wanted to make sure you were okay with me sharing the video since it is your design. I absolutely love it for streaming and it makes switching between machine so much easier. Figured it would help other who want to build this rig as well.

spraynard

Absolutely!

HurryUpPinball

Thank again to Spraynard for the info and materials list for this amazing rig. I created a high speed assembly video in case anyone is considering building this rig or is looking for additional help in assembling it. It took me about an hour to assemble this rig start to finish. If anyone is having difficulty assembling it, let me know and I might put together a standard speed version if enough people need assistance. Here is a link to the assembly video.

normaj

Hi. I did not want to leave the team hanging. I ordered from a list that included the butt fasteners. I think I made a couple of minor errors with my order but I still got more than enough materials to finish the project.

My dad had a titanium drill bit for a standard drill press, and he was able to drill the holes in no time. Recommendation: USE TITANIUM or you’ll have a big mess. Or just take it to a machine shop. Or get 80-20 to improve their website.

chuckwurt

Finally found a good usb powered LED light for these mobile rigs. No more dark games on tournament streams.

Neewer 2-Pack Dimmable 5600K USB LED Video Light with Adjustable Tripod Stand and Color Filters for Tabletop/Low-Angle Shooting, Zoom/Video Conference Lighting/Game Streaming/YouTube Video Photography https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T8FBZC2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_8PV83BQ8C7BRPGSB2FDV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

With the mono price 27k power banks these things will stay on for 7-8 hours

spraynard

That 5V usb is clutch!

chuckwurt

Yeah these work great and I have one that wraps around the back of the rig and one that wraps around the front effectively getting the back of the game and the front. They aren’t very bright and you can position them so they aren’t bothering anyone.

neilmcrae

hmm wish I’d seen that a while back. Xmas 2019 my pinside secret Santa (a very kind secret Santa I add) got me one of these - powerable by sony batteries or usb-c power pack.

I bought another one but what you posted looks great value.

Richthofen

What are the final dimensions with casters? Was thinking of building this but my ceilings in the basement are only 82 inches; imaginging with two 40 inch stacked 8020s that this is > 80 inches with casters?

kdeangelo

The last parts list I posted should be under that I think. Can measure this weekend to verify. This one was designed in smaller pieces for easier storage/travel.

neilmcrae

One thing. I placed two orders for the V3 rig from 8020 on the first of July and they are currently quoting a shipping time of 11/17 !!!

dri

I’m looking into building one of these for the local arcade. I can’t quite get what “Counterbores 7040 in A Left, 7040 in C Left” means as it doesn’t translate to what’s in the machining services on the website at the moment.

kdeangelo

I updated the spreadsheet with the current options 8020 is using. Just pick butt fastener for all counterbores as that’s what the hardware being used is.

Also, alternatively you can use tnutz.com instead of 8020. They are a good deal cheaper in most cases. Finish quality isn’t as high as 8020 with some rougher edges/counterbores along with scratches on new pieces, but if you want to save some money go there.

pinzap

To all: Does anyone have a link to a simple hotshoe or standard thread mount that would go into the t-slot? I’ve used some clamps and they tend to work pretty well, especially when I need adjustability… but sometimes I want a low profile mount to take up minimum space.

For that matter… feel free to reply with any accessory mounts you’ve used that might prove useful.

chuckwurt

I’ve used the following for the playfield camera:

Pedco UltraClamp Assembly Camera Mount Accessory for Cameras, Scopes, and Binoculars https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003MS1RL8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_VMCHM2G16W7AM3E9C872?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

11" Adjustable Robust… https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CTFZSXZ?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

pinzap

Thanks Erik… i like the clamp and swivel on that one. I’m also a big fan of the SmallRig mounts, which is mostly what I use.

Still trying to find a direct mount T-nut to hot-shoe or t-nut to 1/4 screw post. Just to minimize space. Maybe they just don’t exist.

chuckwurt

I got the swivel one to allow for the playfield cam to sit back off the crossbar more of a better view of the playfield and not be straight up and down. Allows to push the rig further up on the game to get the wheels past the front legs too.

gammagoat


I use this setup in a few places, it is ok, but not great. I can figure out what the parts are if you care.

gammagoat

Or use the small rig with a slide in or drop in 8020 tnut


dri

Thanks for updating the spreadsheet. I just put in an order. Is it self-explanatory how to put this together? I’m assuming this is the rig you used at PATL? I really liked the black finish.

kdeangelo

It should be mostly self-explanatory. There are only two different types of connectors. Always happy to help if you get stuck during assembly.

Yep, that was the rig I used at PATL.

neilmcrae

I just built two of them -really easy!

Neil.

dri

Shipped from 8020 today. Much faster than I anticipated.

dri

What batteries are everyone using? I want to ensure I get batteries that can be charged and used at the same time if we would have to resort to power at the tail end of a long day. I’m looking at the 20kmAh batteries from Monoprice. I was thinking pairing a camera and a transmitter per battery and have a fourth battery for lights and other things. Or is one battery per device a better strategy?

dri

I got my box of parts. Besides one bolt being the wrong size I think everything is here. However, I do question the L and T junctions. There’s like a 2-3mm gap when I fit the 3095 into the mating profile. This creates a wobble. Looking at the machining description in the spreadsheet, isn’t it supposed to be “anchor fastener” instead of “butt fastener” at the L and T junctions? The screws are way too long and I suspect the machining is supposed to be much further up in the profile.

Edit: Ok, I found the answer to my own question. The diff is ~3.4mm or 0.134": http://literature.puertoricosupplier.com/073/RD72397.pdf Nothing an angle grinder can’t fix. :innocent:

billr317

Has anyone added a shelf to the rig that would be able to hold a laptop? If you have, please share a photo too!

Thanks!

gammagoat

@KevInBuffalo posted these on their discord.


Jahkub

I don’t have a photo of it atm but I modified a versatables monitor mount by adding a platter to the vesa mount to hold the laptop.

singleballplay

Would 2020 (3/4") profile work for this or would it not be sturdy enough?

FullTiltPinball

Is this the latest BOM to use for creating the mobile rig?

kdeangelo

Yes, it is the last one I put together. I would also look at https://www.tnutz.com/ as an alternative to 80/20 when pricing it out as they’re consistently cheaper and also ship out faster. Only downside is their finish isn’t quite as nice as 80/20’s.

livecatchpinball

Built with the specs learned on this forum, with materials/vendors in Brazil.

Came out nicely, 100% perfect !!! Easy to build, took some time to adapt to what vendors carry in their stock but I nailed it on the head.

Thanks for sharing info here !!! Play pinball

Changed my username from livecatchpinball to funhousebra , but will change to funhouseBrasil as @raydaypinball pictured Rudy on lingerie’s LOL . Fun, Fun Fun LOL

dri

I’m on the quest to find wireless HDMI TX/RX that can go through indoor walls and of course have three of them in the same room. Closed circuit without any need for external WiFi etc. Does this even exist?

chuckwurt

@TomGWI don’t the actiontec ones work through walls?

TomGWI

They do to a point. When I would stream at my house it would give me a signal to the next room. If I tried to push it one more room I would lose the signal.

dri

I’m going to try the Accsoon CineEye 2 Pro’s. I’ll report back with my findings. I saw @neilmcrae ran the Accsoon CineView HE’s in a triplet and it looked good. I liked the specs and flexibility of the CineEyes better though. Time will tell. According to reviews and the marketing material, they should carry signal through indoor walls with door openings.

neilmcrae

I suspect the Accsoon HE will go through walls at the 2.4GHz range. But it’s whether you can get three nicely to behave on the bands you need and not have any issues from other 2.4GHz sources.

Now had several streams with the HEs and they have been bullet proof at the UK Open we streamed 14 hours solid on Sunday without a blip but not a blip all weekend.

neilmcrae


neilmcrae

neilmcrae

Just to note the Accsoon’s use a lot of power. I’d be tempted to put each one on a battery on its own and then the cameras on another battery.

dri

I was chatting to Marc about that and it’s weird because Accsoon is using low power draw as a selling point. I’ll measure mine once I get them, as I like to have an equal draw across the battery stacks.

dri

First round of tire kicking of the Accsoon’s. 5W of power draw, it fluctuates about +/- .5W. An annoyance is that the power-on is a single button and it has to be powered on manually. It should’ve been a regular on/off switch. The button is also mushy on a few of the units.

I need to build new wire harnesses to supply the USB-PD power (using USB-C to DC barrel).

I also want to warn that there might be camera incompatibility issues. For some mysterious reason, the transmitter won’t accept one of my Lumix G9’s. Same settings and firmware, I tried multiple cables. I’m stumped.

I’m setting up a test stream with this gear over the weekend hopefully. In the meantime, line of sight and indoors with multiple walls, no problem.

Walkthrough on Instagram… (edit: not sure why you can’t paste Instagram links as-is)

SOLD: That said, I have a complete 2x blackbirds + 1x Hollyland for sale as a kit. :roll_eyes:

PinDaddy

Hey folks! does aanyone have the order for TNUTZ broken down? I see price via 8020 has doubled. Trying to find a cheaper option for a new local location in PA. If you happen to know of anyone looking to sell a rig that is not being used, That would also be something they would be interested in, just let me know!

PinDaddy

I am a little unfamiliar with the individual pieces being used for the rig so I am afraid to just place the order without building from a list. IS the Sheet item decriptions transferable to TNUTz to fins the same items from 8020?

kdeangelo

I think this looks correct. Most of the 8020 part numbers transfer directly over to Tnutz.

neilmcrae

Yeah the power button is a poor design for this type of kit - not sure why that camera isn’t syncing to Accsoon - the only thing I’ve not be able to make work is the LVDS adaptor out of a stern game. It was going to ask the Accsoon guys if they can add an option for power on - on power connect.

Neil

chuckwurt

Accsoon users. What do you like about these over the hollylands?

dri

The feature the Accsoon lack, power-wise, is remembering the power state. If you unplug it while powered on it should come back on when power is restored. I really don’t care how they implement it, there should be an “always on at all cost” option.

Re: my G9 issue, it just must be that particular G9 as my other G9 worked just fine.

dri

I only had one Hollyland so I can’t really speak to having a triplet and how they behaved in that situation.

dri

Ok, I did a test stream with the Accsoon’s. Indoors 50ft apart with multiple obstructions and walls including a closed door! My garage is “fireproof”, meaning the door is an external door and the walls have double and thicker drywall sheets. All three pairs runs on separate channels and “groups” as they call it. You should also consider my space WiFi “noisy” as I have a mesh and over 30 devices connected at any time at both 2.4/5GHz.

I put a highlight on YouTube: Stern Pinball Godzilla LE: v1.0.1 with 1.5B GC on the meter. Streamed from Raccoon City Pinball. - YouTube and a full broadcast is available here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1638205884 (my lights are running in power-saving mode here so it may be a bit dark).

What I see when I blow the OBS program up in 4K is that there are compression artifacts. To the best of my knowledge I run them in HQ mode.

So far, so good!

PinDaddy

And should I match the measurements you just put In This image or the ones on the Google sheet? Just making sure I order correctly.

kdeangelo

They should be the same measurements on both that image and the google sheet.

BigBrother

I just ordered the TNUTZ setup following Karl’s black mobile rig build. The price difference between TNUTZ and 80/20 was significant. All in with tax and shipping to Central PA was under $300. When it is all put together I’ll comment on quality observations with the TNUTZ gear.

PinDaddy

I did the same! If you happen across a build tutorial for the TNUTZ , please post it here. I just got my stuff and am at a bit of a loss.

BigBrother

When I try and work it out in my head I think it works something like this… It is my best guess. When mine comes in I’ll try and record the build.

neilmcrae

they also ship internationally too! I ordered two rigs from 8020 and the sent the wrong size via reshipping company which wasn’t cheap, tnutz sent what I needed, the finish isn’t quite as good around the machined areas but with the bolts in its unnoticeable, service times are an order of magnitude better also.

neilmcrae

I’d also take any recommendation for wheels, ideally low profile wheels.

Neil.

BigBrother

The TNUTZ rig (@kdeangelo 's design/specs above) shipped really fast. From order to delivery was four days. I don’t have an 80/20 rig to compare it to for quality, but the TNUTZ rig assembled easily and the quality seems pretty darn good to me. Everything showed up as ordered and looks great in the black finish. The box all the parts shipped in was surprisingly small. The rig really can pack down in to a fairly small case if travel/packing is an attribute you need. The only point I deviated on with the specs was I increased the Base/Foot segment lengths up to 24" from 18" for some added stability, but if packing down to a nice small case is a factor to you, the 18" original design would work just fine and would make for easier/cleaner packing and travel.

I picked up some cheap casters/wheels from my local Harbor Freight to help me decide in what direction I wanted to go with for rolling the rig around. I’m not 100% sure if I’m going to stick with these wheels and/or mounting, but they work and the rig feels very stable.

I’m still playing around with different mounting options for the cameras, mic, etc. using the old stuff from prior cobbled together rig setups, but I included a few pictures of where I’m at with this very rough work in progress. Definitely not advocating for the pictured mounting approach, but it is where I’m at with stuff I had on hand.



PinDaddy

Did you do a recording for the build? If not, can you just take a few pictures of the connection locations? Just want to make sure I do those right.

singleballplay

Would a short piece above the leg for the wheel work, making the wheel more flush with the bottom, or you need actual low profile wheels?

neilmcrae

No I just have a height limit in my shed where I have two supporting beams so looking for low height/profile wheels

neilmcrae

Just an update on Accsoon devices - I ran 4 in my shed all day today without any challenges. My shed is 9mx7m so not the most challenging distances. But it worked fine.

@BackhandPinball ran the UK Open stream for me and Marc reported no issues with the Accsoon thru the whole weekend except the juiciness of their power demand and needing to change batteries more often.

Neil.

BackhandPinball

Chiming in with Neil here, I’ve now used the Monoprice Blackbirds an uncountable amount of times (they just wont die), HollyLands and Accsoons about equal and I will have to say, the Accsoons are flawless minus the battery pull- be prepared to be switching batteries every 3-4 hours or buy some heftier batteries.

Highly recommend.

neilmcrae

Marc I’m wondering if it was the Accsoon or if it was the lights that sucked the power out…?

I just ran my rig with some new batteries fully discharged then re-charged with 3 accsoon’'s and three Canon M6 Mark II cameras and managed 7 hours. So three batteries 26800mAh; on each one Accsoon and 1 Camera. They all died within 20 minutes of the first going to the last.

And I streamed at our club and was able to stream from a distance of over 100ft through two thick walls, there was some lag in the broadcast but it was watchable.

neilmcrae

Also keen to know how folks going out on location are carrying all their gear. In my setup:

Desktop Tower
2 24x Screens → Just got this for these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trunab-Carrying-Compatible-Computer-Accessories-Black/dp/B096VNC87S?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1
Keyboard with integrated trackpad
Tall Tripod for Accsoon Reciever
3 Cameras
6 Accsoon Tx/Rx
2 Lights
12 Batteries
Rodecaster
4 headsets
Battery Charger
Cables.

oh and the rig itself.

Neil.

dri

I can fit all my gear in three rifle cases except the commentary station, which has its own frame with wheels that is permanently assembled. I’m designing a roadcase for it any rainy day now. I also have a fold-up projector screen I can bring with me if there’s spectators at the streaming location.

This is what the commentary station looks like. This was my test setup for the Accsoon’s. Indoors with multiple walls and a closed fire door.

Also, I pretend to be an artist at times (the actual rifle cases).

dri

I had my first “real” stream with the Accsoon’s in a labyrinth type location. When the demand for bitrate is high you’ll notice crackling noise in the audio coming through the HDMI signal. I solved this by dropping the player camera from 1080p60 to 1080p24 which left ample room for the signal to transmit cleanly (also moving my mics to the player camera from the playfield camera). Also, for some reason, when I set the camera output to 1080p30, the Accsoon would force 1080p60 on the signal.

No complaints about the power draw on mine as all six batteries depleted equally over the course of 11 hours and had to switch battery bank in the first game of finals. Do note I don’t have the same model Neil ran with as I found the transmitter UVC tap over USB-C completely redundant for what I’m doing.

I rendered some “before” and “after” example for this crackling artifact for you to scrutinize.

neilmcrae

The other difference with the model you are running Michael is that the HE’s can be powered via USB-C cable but the version you are using requires a DC Barrel style connection.

For me being able to use any USB-C or USB-USB-C cable is very important as it makes the setup easier IMO.

dri

I wouldn’t be here today unless I could run 12V barrels off USB-PD batteries. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NTVLZH7

neilmcrae

yeah its just another cable type to carry around :smiley: no need if all USB

dri

I’ve dumbed my cabling down to a handful sets of harnesses depending on what I’m doing. I don’t have a single “loose” cable in my kit. Cable management is something I spend way more time/money on that is reasonable. :blush:

neilmcrae

yeah I was just thinking about doing the same thing.

dri

Before I do something stupid here I want to check with the folks on this thread. Has anyone run a 4x1 multiviewer in their rig with a single wireless TX/RX setup? Here’s an example of such a device, runs on 12V (USB-PD) too: https://www.amazon.com/Multi-Viewer-FHD1080P-Switcher-Different-Seamless/dp/B09NPRP1TY/

The idea is that you compose a single image with your cameras into one 1080p60 image that you then chop up in OBS/XSplit and orient each piece accordingly. The player and playfield camera will then have an effective resolution of 960x540, rotating that to 540x960 is not far from the 636x1080 which is the max res you can do with 9:16 AR rotated inside a 16:9 frame.

You probably would want to run cameras where you can mute the audio or simply get termination plugs for the mic jacks as you’re most likely interested in audio from just one of them. A fun bonus here is that you can hang in a b-cam for shits & giggles as there will be one quadrant available in the frame.

I’ve been eyeing up a pro RX/TX (Teradek) setup and they set you back $2K per TX/RX. :face_holding_back_tears:

Anyhow, food for thought.

gammagoat

I have been considering doing this using my pi4 for webcam, but I have not bothered yet. I didn’t know these existed.

I had looked into similar idea to reduce the number of transmitters, but power was always my concern. Things that need 12V scare me. Knowing how much latency it adds would be good.

I would consider using this just to reduce my number of usb capture devices I run

misterschu

I think this is very clever, and potentially cheaper than buying multiple TX/RX pairs. I had thought about this with using a laptop locally on the rig to put the view together, which would also need only one hdmi transmitter, but this item is much simpler, and cheaper.

A potential issue I’m seeing is that this similar item from BH (a very reputable AV dealer) explicitly states 1080p30 video

This one from amazon says 1080p@60hz which i would hope means 60fps? https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digital-Multi-Viewer-Seamless-JTECH-MV41V/dp/B07MTRGFPT/ref=sr_1_15?crid=3FIMHKLEUE6OB

dri

Oh, that is great idea on how to use it too! (now I’m really stewing…)

USB-PD is the solution. I have lights and audio mixers running on USB-PD in my rigs. Works both on batteries and chargers.

I’ve gone down this path so many times but it all comes down to the power draw because you effectively need to render a full scene AND capture at the rig and it’s expensive as hell. A multiviewer that runs on 12V couldn’t have more power draw than single digit watts as it only downscale frames, which should be cheap.

misterschu

ya, the laptop would need to be plugged into the wall, is the major weakness. The one I linked says under 6W draw max.

spraynard

Had a similar thought a while back but dropped it for whatever reason! Please try and let us know how it works.

fyi, one of the amazon comments says it doesn’t transmit audio so the issue about mutable cameras may be moot.

dri

Oh, thanks! Yeah, it needs proper research as there’s like 20-25 offbrands in this space, the one I linked was just an example. You can always use an HDMI audio inserter after the multiviewer if audio is not mixed in any of these devices. But then we need another box. :upside_down_face:

PEZ

Long time lurker. Gathered up some great info for our rig . Thanks For the picture instructions @BigBrother ! Thanks to all on the thread . Soup to nuts in about two weeks. TNUTZ shipped right quick. Super happy with their product. Never worked with extrusion before . Interesting . I also opted for the bit longer base
I did have to run out and get 3/4 inch bolts for the base plate . Home Depot had them . Picked up some casters there as well. Can’t wait to hook the cameras up and put my new GoPro to work .


dri

I find the most obscure devices on my journeys and here’s one of those. It allows you to connect a standard USB UVC webcam and “convert” it to HDMI. So you can essentially take your all USB setup, get a bunch of these with HDMI TX/RX devices to make your USB setup wireless. :slight_smile:

gammagoat

I almost bought one of those, but looking at the price decided it wasn’t worth it. I ended up doing it with a Pi4 until I decide to buy another HDMI camera.

neilmcrae

I looked at something kinda similar -

https://proav.co.uk/live-production/yololiv-yolobox-pro?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtvSdBhD0ARIsAPf8oNluKN5ukYlJreivqhncsjfM8DTDZmSqeftUj2njzyFFgqVfP5JBY4AaAn8JEALw_wcB

I managed to get one to try out last year but it lacked enough capability to position the frame correctly. This was to stream directly from the rig to the Internet. Your idea could be interesting but you are giving up a lot of resolution. I run a 4K canvas and bring stuff in at close to native 1080p. - score cams I’d be nervous about in this setup.

We use teradeck at BT Sport and in my view it’s not much improved from what I’m getting with Accsoon and their focus isn’t really HDMI.

dri

Neat little thing for sure!

I hear, I hear. I also have a 4K canvas and the tradeoff might not look too bad on Twitch in 1080p but will look like crap on a local projection of the broadcast, for example a commentator 4K display, which I have.

Anyhow, I bought a multi-viewer now and I’m going to give it whirl and review in a couple of weeks. If your entire workflow is 1080p (canvas, local viewing etc) I think there’s tricks to make it look acceptable.

Interesting, thanks for that data point. Teradeck has a 3840p60 wireless TX/RX that set you back $6,500 (they have a cheaper 3840p30 but is anyone doing 30 fps?). If you bolt on a 4K multi-viewer on the rig, there’s no compromise as you can gobble 4 x 1080p60 natively on a 4K multi-viewer. Teradek has one 1080p60 HDMI only TX/RX now. But yeah, a lot of SDI in their portfolio.

neilmcrae

I believe the focus of those higher systems is really 4K+HDR (HDR10) which sort of makes sense bandwidth wise. Few broadcasters will use wireless for places where you need a high frame rate (sports for example - as they have the time/capability to either use existing cabling or put down the cabling and from the early days of 4K which was a freaking nightmare to get a clean 10bit end to end play out most of that cabling in big sporting venues is there to use.

When we are using wireless it’s for interviews/no action type situation pre and post match.

The other issue is that for high bandwidth broadcast the movement is towards 6GHz but that isn’t universally available in all geographies - we cover the UEFA champions league which can be anywhere in Europe - so we are actually now running a private 5G standalone network with 5GNR to a large number of cameras “on the pitch” and finding it works really well and works in any geo.

The point of the device earlier was where you don’t have a space for a streaming PC setup - plug in a couple of wireless mics (Rode for example) stream from the camera rig. I have this working even using cellular for the broadcast I just need a rig based device that can create the scene I need without having to bold at PC to the rig.

Neil.

dri

What’s wrong with bolting computers to the rig?! :grin: Not pictured, a Netgear MR6500.

misterschu

Which one did you buy? I ordered one from AliExpress (price was very right) to give some testing. fussing with multiple TX/RX gives me shpilkes

dri

The 1080p60 box from Monoprice: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07594J1MQ

The 4K wording in the title alludes to it supporting 4K input, which of course will be downscaled. The output is 1080p60 and carry audio (audio source is supposed to be selectable).

misterschu

this is what i purchased https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804205610406.html

Not clear whether it will do 1080p60 output

misterschu

Received the multiviewer and tried it out with blu-ray and firestick, looks great, according to the “60fps test” videos on YouTube, it is doing 60fps (on the 1080p setting, my tv is not 4k).

Hopefully give it a try on the rig this weekend.

dri

Ok, I fired up the multi-viewer to see what I’m dealing with here. Great form factor, comes with brackets so you can easily mount it on the 8020 with simple hardware. Audio patches through without issues and the audio is independent regardless of which “scene” you select. All but the fullscreen and quad view will stretch the input (like WTF?) and not crop it, which I had hoped. So, if the quad layout and fullscreen is what you’re gunning for, it does the job. Runs off 12V USB-PD just fine with a standard DC barrel to USB-PD cable. The fullscreen switcher is instant with no lag/frameskip etc. The only downside is that for each switch it displays the input res in the OSD for a few seconds (toggling the OSD button here didn’t help).

Now, as for the initial tire kicking of quality, what you’re actually losing, sits with the eye of the beholder. I’m contemplating running a full scale apples-to-apples comparison but just looking at these screenshots kind of speak for itself. My canvas is 4K but this is scaled down to 1080p to better represent of what’s actually leaving OBS. No image compression has been involved here. Is there a quality trade-off? Yes, there is.

Now, if I had known about this trick when I started streaming, I would probably still be running with it. A single HDMI cable coming off the rig. One capture source. Go wireless? ONE single RX/TX pair. Want better detail in your close-up player scene while chatting in fullscreen? Click the button on the remote. Done!

dri

I cooked up a review and demo of the Blackbird Multi-Viewer.

This is the “reference” game with my regular gear.

A similar long-play game with the multi-viewer.

As I mentioned previously, it mounts pretty neat on the 8020 slots.

After more careful review of the production I’d say quality takes quite a hit. Although I’ve seen productions look far worse than this without a multi-viewer. I might consider adding this to my ultra-mobile kit or somewhere in between.

gammagoat

Thanks for the video. I think I will pick one up. For laptop streaming, reducing the number of usb capture devices is a huge benefit. I would probably run playfield on its own and everything else on the multiviewer. Heck, on location I might just do the playfield as well.

(PS: why am I buying more gear when I am currently not even streaming)

dri

Thanks for watching! I apologize the loud ass sound in the multi-viewer gameplay but it seems OBS add more volume for each time a certain mic input appears in the scene (without actually reflecting this in the VU bumpers). I had no idea. Since the quad scene was added 4 times into the main overlay + already had the mics in the main scene, you hear a 5X amplification.

Then you can run FIVE cameras for even more fun!

My head is always at building/tinkering. This is how I work in general, more interested in the behind the scenes than actually being on stage or doing the thing.

gammagoat

Here is my 1 ball test comparing my playfield view between the multiviewer and my normal wireless playfield. I am not sure I can see a quality difference. It is running off battery. I am pretty happy with this. I think I would probably go 1 transmitter if I hadn’t already bought 3 :slight_smile:

The setup is as follows:

  • Left playfield is Sony ZV-1 going into an Accsoon Cineview HE wireless transmitter and captured at 1080p60
  • Center playfield is the HDMI out of the Accsoon transmitter plugged into input 1 of the multiviewer.
  • Score cam is a sony CX405 at 720p60 input 2 of the multiviewer
  • Player cam is a logitech c922 going into a Pi4 at 720p60 and output into input 3

Sound is captured from the zv-1.

I can see some difference, for example the shoot again text is crisper on the direct capture, but it is not a huge difference.

gammagoat

Small followup. Same setup, but using the 1 large 3 small layout. The playfield looks a bit sharper. So it is another option for tradeoff. Maybe not the best on a Spike2 screen, because clarity of score is important, but good on DMD.

gammagoat

There is basically no resolution loss in the playfield. It is 1080 pixels tall on the multiviewer and in the final output. It is passed through a couple scalers, so there is loss as it is scaled to whatever width it is on the multiviewer and then again to 608 for output.

gammagoat

And I wrote up the setup. Wireless Pinball streaming with a Monoprice Blackbird 4x1 Multiviewer

dri

Nice find with the scaling there on the 1x3 layout, I was going to check that at one point. I’m not super concerned about the size of “3” stack as 1080/3 is 360 and with 16:9 AR that yields a 640x360 frame. I run my stream with a 782x440 frame for the score cam in the final 1080p60 output and never had a complaint. There surely is a certain amount of pixel estate lost but this is a compromise we can live with I think.

Next on my list of “look what I found” is a video wall controller. It effectively splice an HDMI source (camera) and sends it to two separate inputs. So, you can combine those in OBS for more pixels and effectively makes the 4 x multi-viewer a 3 x multi-viewer. Power draw, lag and other factors (the cropping of the source) might not make this an effective solution but I don’t like having that 4th port blank on the multi-viewer when there’s plenty of pixels we can take in at the rig. For this two make sense it has to be a 4K source camera. I don’t know, now it sounds like a dumb idea. :slight_smile:

misterschu

so if i’m understanding this, using the 1 large, 3 small, your playfield is being stretched by the multiviewer and then unstretched by OBS?

gammagoat

That is correct. The multiviewer scales the width from 1920 to 1280. OBS then scales the height from 1080 to 720. So you are basically doing a slightly worse scaling from 1080p to 720p. Then you rotate and scale down to 608x1080. I think obs collapses the transforms (hopefully even how I setup the scenes, hmmm)

dri

I was browzing tnutz website yesterday but I couldn’t make out how they distinguish anchor and butt fasteners in the machining options for the extrusion. Do they only have one depth for the counterbores? I couldn’t find any black butt fasteners either so I was SOL getting an order in yesterday.

pinfamy

I have the order from the screenshot above (with 18" foot base instead of 24" since I want to be able to pack it), and everything except the base plate for the casters is available. What part could be used in substitution? I assume everything else was exactly like the order above?

edit1: I just spotted this in their “new” section but it looks like it’s for a corner:

edit2: finally found it in their “clearance” section. It would be nice if their search function worked, but after posting 2 links to these products it’s apparent I could have guessed the link =P

2CryptoGuyz

Hey guys we started streaming the beginning of our journey today.

This stream is of my son and I actually building the rig.
We bought scrape 45/45 knock-off 80/20 material off of FB Marketplace and all the t-nuts and brackets on Amazon for less than $200. All of the aluminum was $100 plus a 2hr trip down to Birmingham, AL. Total metal parts and hardware was $300.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1763660319

We just had the audio going straight into the computer, but needed it to go through some sort of device to keep it from peaking and different times.

gammagoat

If you are using OBS you can add a compressor (or limiter) audio filter to your audio source to help with the peaking. There are other useful audio filters that are often overlooked.

KILLDOZR

MONOPRICE is the way. I really wish they made low-cost heavy duty casters.

pinfamy

a few things I learned building the tnutz BOM out from this post:

  1. you need a 1/4" alan wrench ball end tool so you can tighten these bolts inside the mounting channels (or whatever they are called). your local hardware store has them on hand, but make sure the drive is not > 1/4" or it may not fit in the channel. i opted for the 3/8" socket set to be able to use my socket wrench. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-7-Piece-Long-Ball-Hex-Driver-Socket-Set-SAE/5001994691
  2. in the photo from the post it says items 4) are for the upper long leg section. i ended up using them for the lower so the mounting screws don’t rotate at the top 18" segment which is an eyesore, and also limits your ability to raise/lower any mounting bracket on the front/back past the segment. fine if you’re using clamps anyway, but visibly you don’t see the mounting bracket on the feet unless you’re looking.
  3. the T-Nut & Screws in 8) have either the wrong length screws (5/8") or they changed the wheel base plates to be thicker where the screws go. 5/8" barely protruded from the base plate so you couldn’t attach it at all. these types of screws are readily available at your local hardware store in size: 5/16-18 x 1".
  4. there was a question about wheels to use somewhere in this but the inexpensive wheels suggested didn’t have the 3/8" - 16 threading i don’t believe so they wouldn’t have worked. carl responded with the wheels he used (which were $90). the ones I ended up with were suggested by @dri and work great:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T1GZGZG
    if i push the rig up the slope of the garage floor they make a u-turn and come rolling back down. pretty great for the $$$.

an easy build even without any instructions, but the description of each piece in the post above from @BigBrother definitely helped get me started and @dri helped me with the alan wrench issue.

dri

People’s ingenuity to get pinball streaming online never ceases to amaze me. I randomly walked into a Belles & Chimes tournament outside Phoenix this weekend. The 8020 streaming rig had three Logitech Mevo cameras on it and a battery. THAT’S IT, that was the rig! These sell in 3-packs for $999. I immediately started to investigate the capabilities.

Pros:

  • AIO. Battery, video, audio and wireless
  • Picture quality looks pretty decent for what is
  • 3.5mm TRS input for external microphones (uncertain if it supports plug-in power that most on-camera mics requires) and AUX-level
  • USB-C input for mics, Ethernet and extra power
  • A bunch of cool accessories
  • Integration with OBS with either NDI or RTMP

Cons:

  • 1080p30 :frowning: (I could not find any evidence of 720p60 support)
  • Specs doesn’t mention a zoom function of the lens
  • No local “viewfinder” to position the rig, but the system has some sort of phone app that taps into the camera streams.

The 1080p30 limitation is the main deal breaker, but technology moves forward. If Logitech see success in this kit we can rest assured there will be a 1080p60 and 2160p30 versions around the corner.

Here’s the stream they produced: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1801010463 (I recommend fast forwarding a bit as the PF was upside down for quite a while). A lot can be done to improve quality here with some lights and better mount positions as all three cameras was clamped on the frame without an articulating arms etc.

Anyhow, these have been on the market for quite a while and I had no idea they existed, I thought I’d share.

IAmAkkim

First time poster - really liking the mobile rig and all the t-slot hardware… but a dumb question…

Recommendations for Mounts/Clamps to work with? :slight_smile:

In a perfect world, we’d have stuff we could slot-in easily… but I’m not even sure where to begin finding mounts, arms, small shelves or whatever… :slight_smile:

Thanks in advance,
–Micah

dri

If you’re looking for fixed/permanent 8020 mounts, I use these depending on weight/angle.

1/4"-20 is the camera thread and 3/8"-16 is common for mic stands and good for heavier stuff.

If you need something that is easy to attach/detach and give you more freedom, I recommend the Camvate super crab clamp: https://www.amazon.com/CAMVATE-Adapter-Hand-Tight-Fastener-Butterfly. Do NOT get the SmallRig version of this clamp as it doesn’t have as many taps and the rubber grips fall off. These clamps “nip” perfectly into the T-slot and is very sturdy. I’ve seen streamers clamp the entire profile and it makes the attachment very wobbly. Just Nip It! (no pun intended).

Once you have “threads” on the frame, just use the magic arms for everything, available in two lengths and give you full 360° motion with great accuracy and sturdiness: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076KDD8MY

Another hot tip when using threaded attachments is that your equipment needs to hang right or flat to ensure the weight doesn’t unscrew the arm. Have that in mind when planning for the mounts that you’ll have far less problems when the thread direction is vertical (on a horizontal surface).

IAmAkkim

Thanks so much for taking the time! I was using TNUTZ (I’m so gangsta) and they didn’t have the plate options there - at least not that I could see.

Those are awesome, I appreciate your time! Because the whole rig is ultimately to be portable, being able to leverage the plates and simple arms to get objects in place quickly is the goal.

Instead of the Camvate,I actually grabbed a couple of these - because you are 1000% right about the grip/pads not lasting.

Those are solid, and allow me to clamp/rotate wherever.

Of all things, this rig will travel between Pinball at home (I need to get brackets to reinforce it being a little wobbly) and Candlepin Bowling out and about.

Again, thanks so much!
–Micah

chuckwurt

I use these two types a lot. Work great for cameras, lights, etc.

R094 Super Clamp Multi-Functional… https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09CTJHV8Q?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Smatree Adjustable Jaws Flex… https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWNYGUS?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

singleballplay

Picked up a couple new LED panels for mobile rig.

Pretty nice and run off a USB-C power source. Quite a bit bigger than my old Viltrox L-116T.

chuckwurt

These look awesome!

gammagoat

Do you have a review? They look really nice on paper.

singleballplay

Haven’t gotten to use them much yet, this weekend hopefully. But just quickly, I really like the diffusion panel, it’s very soft and I don’t notice any bright spots where the leds are, the build seems nice and they’re a good medium size panel that should fit nicely on a rig. The vertical and horizontal mounting options are nice too. I need to do some power draw tests for practical time off battery banks and such but I’m guessing you’d get a good amount.

dri

I’m really interested in the performance on these. Quite the surface and an “instant beauty” button is just what these old farts need! :slight_smile: 15W draw is a bit of a hog but I bet these perform adequately at 50% brightness when on battery. The amazon reviews praise the diffusion and I’ll hail that vertical mount option too for more range/options for positioning.

The Viltrox L-116T is what I have stacks of and they run fine on USB-PD too for the folks who wonders, you just need the USB-PD to DC barrel cable.

ryanwanger

Hoping this is the right spot for this…

I’ve been telling myself that streaming isn’t really practical at my arcade because of the layout. I’ve only done wired streaming at one game before, but am familiar with the mobile rigs used at tournaments from experiences watching, commentating, and embarrassing exits from tournaments as a player.

My assumption has been that a mobile rig would need a direct line of sight to command central.

Here is a pic of the layout of my arcade:

Most of the inner walls are lath and plaster, and some brick. The X toward the center of the pic is where my current router is. The other X in the room on the lower right is GOTG, which barely gets enough signal to use insider connected. I have a dozen IC games, but the others are closer to the router. It took me an entire afternoon of testing different router locations and moving games around to find a configuration that worked without cramming all the modern sterns into the same room.

Also, there is another level below this one, with more games and a much more open layout. The floor is wood throughout, and the ceiling below isn’t finished, so it’s just exposed joists and the wood floor itself between the levels.

Ideally, I would like to be able to stream events and have coverage for every machine. I’m not even sure how partial it is for just the main level. Is this possible with two mobile rigs (one on each level)? I’ve had lots of suggestions from tech friends, but none of them have done live streaming from a mobile rig, so I’m skeptical of their ideas.

There are no hardwired Ethernet connections in the building.

A lot of my motivation for this is to be able to be considered as a host for something like Pinmasters, NACS, or IFPA worlds, which would require an a broadcasting setup (among other things).

Ideally, the broadcast booth would be on the lower level, but it wouldn’t have to be.

If two level coverage isn’t possible, what is the fix? Two different streams? If two aren’t possible, I would still like to hear ideas for coverage of just the level in the above picture, which is where the majority of the games are.

I can’t say there is an unlimited budget, but I would be comfortable spending well into four figures on the setup. Even so, I’d still be curious to hear solutions even if they exceed that amount.

Frisbez

The Accsoon Cineview He says it does wireless HDMI over 1200 ft without line of sight. I can’t confirm the 1200 ft but I can confirm it works just fine through walls. At my house the games are all in the garage or basement and my computer is upstairs and it connects and transmits just fine.

I’m running one of those connected to a Monoproce Blackbird 4x1 multiviewer that takes up to 4 HDMI inputs and transmits them as a single HDMI feed so that I only need 1 Cineview because they are not cheap.

chuckwurt

Second those accsoon ones for through walls. They are the only ones tested and confirms through walls for pinball stuff.

gammagoat

You can add something as a relay to get the wireless from the game back to the computer. One (possibly silly) idea would be wireless TX on rig, wireless RX then HDMI cable to TX with line of sight to RX at the computer. Presumably on different floors you would want different rigs anyway, so you are not needing to try to carry it down the stairs. As frisbez suggests, multiviewer would only need 1 wired relay.

I guess you could just run a long HDMI cable back to the computer instead of a second relay, or try getting into wired HDMI transmitters which I don’t expect anyone has experience with.

I think the Accsoons allow for one TX to be picked up by multiple RX. So you might even be able to set the rig with one TX and then position a couple receivers with long HDMI cables back to the PC and swap to the best signals in obs.

Cactus jacks was using 2 computers so one rig feed to one computer, then it pulled in the output of that from ethernet. It is going to add delay, but it works ok.

I think something is possible. It will take money and experimentation. And it still might fail with conditions change with the place full of people

rickyray

I know @dri had a setup working through multiple walls at this years California State Championship. He may be able to offer good advice.

hisokajp

pretty sure that is what @GeekGamerTV did for us too :slight_smile:

dri

Thanks for the ping @rickyray. Yes, the Accsoon CineEye 2 Pro’s will handle your arcade @ryanwanger no problem at all. I run three of those in the same rig and I’ve done tests through fireproof walls with closed doors 40’ apart. The only caveat I’ve discovered with them is that the sound may become somewhat crackly/distorted at 1080p60. My solution for that is to run one source camera at 1080p30 (only the PF camera actually need 1080p60) and pull audio through that camera.

dri

I also second @Frisbez opinion on the multi-viewer. It’s a great choice if you’re on a budget. It requires so much less cabling and horsepower (just one single HDMI stream to work with) and the quality is great if I may say so myself. This is captured through the blackbird 4x1 (using a Black Magic Recorder on a Macbook Pro M1): Stern Pinball Jurassic Park Premium: A few lucky shots landed 500M. Streamed from Lynn's Arcade. - YouTube

stepan

How is that set up? Does it take 4 1080P streams and turns it into 4K stream? Then in OBS you set up your zones accordingly?

Do you run 3 TX of these per rig? Or do you have 3 mobile rigs (9 cameras) with 1 RX

It looks really smooth! The laptop appears to be right next to the game, though

Frisbez

The Blackbird scales the input resolution and has a couple different output modes.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24740

neilmcrae

For those who run larger setups I’ve sweat tested 6 Accsoon TX/RX for a couple of days and not seen any issues at about 10m distance based on what I’m seeing I expect large venue LOS can easily run 6 accsoon devices without any issues. I actually think you might get away with 2 more aleast according to the bandwidth available at 5GHz - issues may occur on the 2.4G band but thats more likely used as back up

My intial 4 Accsson devices I bought are on firmware 1.11 (out of the box they came with something lower that was very instable) and 1.11 has been very reliable, we used that at the UK Open for hours on end.

I did notice on a couple of devices that I bought more recently one has 1.13 on it and the other has 1.14 on it and I’ve asked Accsoon if they have any release notes. If anyone has upgraded to these and its solved anything let me know.

GeekGamerTV

and @gammagoat

Yeah, basically we used a second PC (Laptop) to be an end point for the wireless rig and then sent the complete video setup (the 3 shots/layout/etc) via NDI back to the main broadcast area via CAT 5e (Network).

The setup for the NWPC is the most unique :slight_smile:

This year for the NWPC, I plan on having a bit of a behind the scenes video to show the setup for those who are interested.

dri

This multi-viewer takes 4 x 1080p60 streams and render into a few different layouts but it comes out as a single 1080p60 from the multi-viewer. There are 4kp60 multi-viewers that would gobble the 4 x 1080p60 without loss but it gets expensive on the capture side and you basically need PCIe to grab that video.

I’m mixing apples and oranges here a bit. The Accsoons I have in a different rig. It’s just three RX/TX pairs. The latest games I streamed with the Accsoon setup you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adAwQ-4iAM0&list=PL-eIxuLeDsB3wgdibBTZiFU9xYg31UUMN

Bear in mind that the stutter and lag that occurs is because this venue has very poor and unreliable Internet.

Yes, this video is wired laptop to the mulit-viwer and not using the Accsoon’s.

neilmcrae

So I got a reply from accsoon the latest version for accsoon HE is 1.18 which supports 720p and has a lot of fixes in it. (meaning I think it will broadcast HDMI out of a stern game with the LVDS convertor now). I’m going to upgrade one of my sets to test it and will report back.

hisokajp

very cool, let us know, i will queue up mine for upgrade after you do a beta test for us :slight_smile:

neilmcrae

Haven’t tried the 720p feature yet but after 24 hours no issues with 1080p.

hisokajp

did they give you the release notes?

neilmcrae

No, all I got was this:

We recommend you update to the latest firmware, the latest firmware fixed a few issues:

1, Output color space to fit Atem mini
2, Transmission stable improved
3, Output issue when frequently change the input resolution
4, 720p supported.

actually on the Facebook user group which they are very active in.

Neil.

hisokajp

thanks Neil, just upgraded my 3 pairs to v1.18, most were at 1.11 with one pair at 1.14.

Looking at the setting i saw most were on transmission setting HQ but one pair was on normal, i assume HQ is better? would normal be better if signal has issue connecting in large location/obstructions setting?

neilmcrae

I keep meaning to have more of a play with that function but never remember! I think its all about latency, so to reduce latency you sacrafice picture quality.

hisokajp

yeah i tried yesterday since i was keeping so lost frame from streaming in another room, went to “normal” instead of “HQ” i am not sure i was able to notice a difference really? would need a better controlled environment testing.

singleballplay

If you can find a Raspberry Pi or have one laying around you can try the project I’ve been working on from time to time.

It’s not the most user friendly yet but I think it’s at least usable and not too much hassle to setup and get going.

@gammagoat helped a bit testing it but I think has moved on to RX/TX receivers. And I’m always open to making any improvements I can.

I can run as many rigs as I want since only the active cameras are chewing up bandwidth and there’s no USB load on the streaming PC.

singleballplay

So I finally caved and built a rolling rig based on Karl’s travel spec’d one but I made it out of 20 series (2040) pieces and it’s really solid. I tried 2020 but it was a bit wobbly so I figured the wider stuff might help and it totally did. I got all my parts off of Amazon.


neilmcrae

Folks,
what wheels are you using? I need to repace mine. Links appreciated.

Neil.

hisokajp

got cheap one at home depot… i think they only have the one size that fit the pre-drilled holes.

dri

I’ve replaced all my wheels with these. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T1GZGZG

They will roll by themselves on hard floor if it’s not leveled but they’re easy to lock/unlock.

pinfamy

These are the same ones I bought with @dri 's recommendation. Exactly as described. Rolls on their own, easy to lock, and best of all: “cheap”.

desertt1

I am looking at getting a better playfield cam. I currently have a CX-405 on the playfield and 2 GoPro clones (neither very impressive) for display and player cams. With a new cam I would make that the playfield cam, move the 405 to the display, and the better of the clones to be the player cam.

I have seen at least one pinball streamer use the Sony ZV-1 and came across the ZV-1F this weekend while poking around. I watched this video which does a great job comparing them, but not exactly in a way that I think is useful for pinball streaming. If you use a ZV-1, can you let me know what features are vital and if the F model also share them?

gammagoat

I think @hisokajp and @Frisbez use zv-1f and are happy as far as I know. Be aware that there are new zv-1, possibly denoted M2 or II. So be aware of which zv-1 you are looking at.

chuckwurt

ZV 1F has no zoom fyi. If that matters to ya. I think that’s the major difference.

desertt1

I did see a vid comparing the m2 to the original and the original seemed like the way to go, but neither were a bad choice IIRC.

desertt1

Ohhh, I don’t know that I noticed that in the videos I saw. That would be a big deal. The F also has a wider field of view so unless it’s the proper zoom to the rig height, it wouldn’t be a good fit. Thanks for pointing that out.

chuckwurt

Yeah. Might be okay for a player cam though.

hisokajp

that’s where i use mine, works good enough :slight_smile:

SoireeFlip

Hi Pinheads,

I had a lot of communication issues with the Hollyland Mars 300 Pro on the last tournament I streamed.

I’m using 3 Mars 300 Pro, one for each camera (playfield, score, and player). Everything was working perfectly during testing; I was able to move my Rig on all pinball machines in the room without any signal loose (the furthest machine in the room was, in about, 30-40 meters from receivers). All the room is open, so there were no obstacles or walls.

The event tooks place in Barcadia, Seclin, France, you can easily find photos on Google if you want to see how it looks like.

So, everything was perfect, until 120 players enter the room. When all players were playing their tournament on all pinball machines, I was loosing the signal on all Mars 300 Pro in approx. 5 meters from receivers.
I was not expecting such a signal loose on such a short distance, so, Saturday qualifications were catastrophic to stream and very difficult to watch.
For information, all my antennas are on a 2,20 meters heigh (transmitter and receiver), so higher than all the players in the room.

I don’t understand why players in the room are creating interferences like this, is it their cell phones? Or is it coils from pinball machines maybe?

Do you ever experienced a signal loose like this on such a short distance between transmitter and receivers and how did you deal with it?

I also have the feeling that Insider on Stern pinball machines is creating a lot of interferences on Wifi signals (which is used by Mars 300 Pro).
For finals, on Sunday, I asked Barcadia’s owner to disable Insider on all Stern machines and the signal was a little bit better that day on my Mars 300 Pro receivers.
I also switch off one of my receiver (the player cam) and signal was also better after this on the two remaining Mars 300 Pro. (I put a camera on a tripod directly from casting desk, plugged with a HDMI cable, and was able to show players in the room. Visually, it was very nice on stream, it changes radically from a front player cam)

All tournaments I watch on Twitch or YouTube don’t seems to have this kind of signal problem, so guys, what is your secret? :wink:

Thank you.

Soiree Flip

PS : Here is the replay of the qualifications, where a lot of conneciton issues took place : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1921093006

dri

I was never confident that you could use three of the Mars 300 Pros in the same area. This post proves that they are susceptible to regular radio interference as they seem to work when they’re on their own (I know someone else reported that they worked in a triplet).

Accsoon works with well over a hundred people in the room, through walls, doors and people. Each pair have two dedicated SSIDs (2.4/5Ghz) and the ability to manually tune channel if needed.

Insanity199

Can I assume that the TNUTZ rig build using counterbores will still accomdate a widebody machine for streaming? If I understand correctly, since it is utilizing the counterbores, it can’t be made wider or narrower like some of the original versions posted. Just want to make sure it is suitable for both standard and widebody machines.

EDIT: I think I answered my own question. The upper legs have counterbores but the outer top pieces do not. They use a double anchor which uses the slot on the upper outer crossbar and the counterbores on the upper legs. I assume that gives a lot of flexibility.

neilmcrae

Yup as Michael notes the hollylands just don’t cut it in a Wi-Fi busy / multi camera setup - I have a box of them no one wants LOL.

Accsoon we have tested them to 6 cameras split between two rigs and they work really well. The UK open last year was I think the first big use of them and it was bullet proof. They do use a bit more power so factor that in.

Now with 175 players we need to wait and see but worst case we will use one rig but I’m pretty confident it will be ok.

Planning the Wi-Fi in the room is also important and know what the public Wi-Fi is on and any other Wi-Fi so you can avoid those channels if you need to. The holly lands just seem to random pick channels and would also use the same channel with two or three streams.

Go down with a Mac and use Wi-Fi manager to know what channels you need to avoid.

chuckwurt

As long as they have line of sight and are spread apart, and they are set to be two channels apart each, 3 sets work no issues.

But line of sight is imperative.

SoireeFlip

Hi, can you explain what is exactly a line of site ?
I’m sorry, I don’t understand what it is.

chuckwurt

Line of sight. The transmitters cannot have anything in between them like walls or banners or people any obstructions.

So keep them up high so they don’t have anything blocking their view of one another.

If you bump up to the accusoon transmitters, you don’t have to worry about this.

dri

At the local arcade the topper on Scooby Doo obstructed the signal between the monoprice RX/TX pair. You can basically hold up your hand in front of them to cause interference.

chuckwurt

Not that bad, but if something is parked between them, they will struggle. Definitely 100x better than the monoprice blackbirds.

Websta

what is a decent and not too pricey camera that provides audio over HDMI. I thought i would be able to use my sony cx405 to pick up basic game play sounds but i’m learning they don’t output audio over HDMI.

spraynard

Might be cheaper to get an audio inserter.

Websta

Thanks- i didnt know such a device existed.

chuckwurt

Get the cx 440. That allows audio over hdmi.

Websta

i just assumed the cx440 had a the same limitations cx405s. I actually have a couple of the 440’s so ill give them a try. thanks for the tip.

singleballplay

@kdeangelo I think you mentioned working on a new design for a more quickly deployed mobile rig and I’m just wondering if there’s any info on it. Like design concept or other info you might be willing to share. Like, is a folding design, or telescoping etc.

kdeangelo

It’s a folding design but I haven’t had time to work on it and in fact may change it from my initial concept. It was to be a single arm boom but after building a prototype I think it might be better to try to adapt the current rig into a folding version. All I’m trying to do is get something I can throw in the trunk of my car with most of the equipment still attached to it and have it take around 5 minutes to setup. The single arm is nice but it’s not as stable as I’d like it to be, and to make it more stable I have to increase the leg sizes which defeats the purpose of it.

dri

I built a single arm solution once but it was quite inconvenient. I used a turtle based mini C-stand. It worked great for what it was but sure had its limitations. I did a multi-stop trip in Europe with it.

This is what the production looked like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfbFCXcr2Fk

kdeangelo

Oh I was talking a rolling extruded aluminum stand. Here’s my prototype which is just a bit too scary to use. Adding a battery on the bottom does stabilize it but not enough. The inner legs need to be longer, and they’re hinged to roll between the games.

Folds into this with the base being quickly removable. Star knobs to lock everything in place.

reclaimarcade

I’m planning to do more mobile on-location streaming and wanted to see how much I could get away with on a single mic stand and this worked out pretty well:


2 of the Sony ZV-1s and a webcam all plugged into the Magewell Director Mini which will stream out directly. I had to watch comments on a separate device. Here it is folded down which should fit in my trunk without having to disconnect anything:

I didn’t get as far as wire management so ignore that mess :slight_smile: I need to measure out and find/order the right length cables for the job.

gammagoat

Tell me more about this Magewell Director Mini. Does it do arbitrary layouts with the 3 cameras, or just some presets? Can you do arbitrary overlays?

reclaimarcade

You have 2 HDMI and 2 USB inputs and full control to layer and arrange them, rotate, size, crop, etc. Overlays right now are images, video, hoping they’ll add web overlays but that’s not in there yet. You can have multiple scenes to switch between and it streams out to YT, Twitch, RTMP, NDI, SRT. Also has a web interface, phone app, and full API. I’ve been experimenting with it since December and it has a lot of promise in a small device.

pbpinball2020

@spraynard @kdeangelo

The BOM that Phil originally posted from 8020 - did any of the beams need any specialized machining services? Where there any written out assembly instructions posted (it’s a rather long threat to try and look through)?

When Karl switched out the 1515’s for 1530’s, did anything need to be changed in terms of the BOM as Phil had posted it other than just switching out the beam type?

Thanks for any clarification you can provide.

Patrick

spraynard

My design does not require any counterbores. Karl’s does. Both designs function fine but Karl’s looks a lot cleaner because the butt joint connections are hidden. The only advantage of mine is that it may take less time to ship. Might be a little cheaper? I’m not sure. If I were ordering a new rig now I would go with Karl’s version.

No you cannot simply swap in 1530 for my design.

Someone posted an assembly video earlier in the thread. But honestly it’s not that hard to intuit how it goes together.

pbpinball2020

Is there a bill of materials and instructions posted for Karl’s design? I didn’t see one scanning through the thread. Thanks!

spraynard

Yes he posted one in this thread

reclaimarcade

Perhaps of interest to the group, I recently picked up an Insta360 X5 camera and had the realization today that it might work as a one-camera minimal setup for recording gameplay on location. After all, it records everything it sees so if placed correctly it could record the playfield, player, and score all at the same time. Can’t stream in realtime with all of those views setup like we’re used to seeing, but with some quick edits in a video editor you can put together a pretty convincing video for a rig that’s nothing more than a small camera on a mic stand. Here’s what that looks like to play in front of:


and here is the resulting video that can be created from that one-camera recording with a bit of editing:

Now I just need to figure out a better stand that doesn’t stick out to the right so far since the weight of the camera is negligible, I could probably hacksaw the end of the boom arm off but there may be better pre-built structures to support this and work well fitting between games. But ultimately the whole thing is easy to transport and with an external mic setup and a few more small tweaks could give a real quality video when doing remote-based content. Figured I’d share as I hadn’t seen anyone playing with this idea.

pillyliu

This is absolutely incredible. I struggled to see a seam on the playfield with the cameras facing you and the backboard. When you rotate it, your face looks fine, the distortion of the windows behind you doesn’t matter.

I don’t think anything will top this as a mobile set up for a long time until this can stream to HDMI and be processed in realtime for Twitch.

I keep trying to figure out a better mobile rig to travel with, but the reality is anything else requires multiple cameras, batteries, and a computer for streaming. I think I’m gonna buy one of these just from your example video!

tommyv

It seems like it can send a live feed to OBS. Is the limitation getting OBS to flatten it out and crop it for the three views?

https://onlinemanual.insta360.com/x5/en-us/camera/appuse/obs

reclaimarcade

I noticed that as well, but yeah I think it’s not as simple as cropping because a 360 video made flat has all kinds of curves to it. The OBS method is really to be able to livestream 360º to YouTube. Now that itself could be pretty cool though. I uploaded a video of gameplay and later watched it on a VR headset and it was really trippy. Even in the YouTube mobile app when you’re watching it you can move your phone around to “look around”. Kind of a fun experiment.

cliffclavin

I was inspired by your work with x5 and liked the results. I did a proof of concept using an insta360x4 I picked up.

It required some custom software to take the equirectangular video stream and convert it into 3 different virtual cameras for OBS to consume which did end up working and distortion wise it looks good.

The roadblock from this being a workable option remaining is any realtime capture from a consumer grade 360 camera is far more limited than the resolution it can write to its sd card.

For example when connected via USB-C the insta360x4/5 can only output 2880x1440p which sounds like it will be enough but shared across 3 virtualized views with a lot of cut out space its lower resolution than a viewer would want.

Here is a screenshot snapped from a test live stream. I didn’t crop in the content super cleanly and obviously my space is a mess, but as you can see the resolution when captured live is muddy and low quality beyond what I think could be used.

This was fun to work on and I hope consumer 360 cameras come along that offer higher resolution that you can get a hold of live. Happy to share my notes with anyone who is interested.

reclaimarcade

Thanks for sharing your test! I hadn’t considered the resolution of the output as a potential issue but that’s a good point. Out of curiousity what was the software you used to modify the 360º output for OBS? Seems like an interesting tool for the toolbelt regardless and could come in handy in the future.

cliffclavin

The software was something I wrote, I was planning on polishing it up and sharing it with the community if this was viable. I may still do that, but taking on user trouble shooting and platform compatibility for something that doesn’t reach the bar seems like a heachache at this time lol. The core technology I wrote on top of is ffmpeg (which I believe is what obs uses under the hood as well)

cliffclavin

To follow up once more on the 360 camera viability. I am seeing some promising specs for the Ricoh Theta line of products. https://us.ricoh-imaging.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Theta_Catalog_2022.pdf the line item for Live Streaming (USB) looks good 3840x1920@100Mbps. Perhaps sometime I will try to get my hands on one to try, or someone else will share results with it.

dri

Everyone is going to tell you that you need 60fps (you really don’t). The 100Mbps for 4K is not to shabby as some manufactures are trying to convince us that 12Mbps is visually lossless.

DGBenke

So I am looking to get into the mobile streaming/recording game. I have a Sony ZV1, 420, Yolo S3, Rodecaster Duo, a version of Karls rig and plenty of arms/lights. Everything runs through a pretty beefy gaming laptop (Legion). I mostly want to stream local tournaments and bring my rig to friends houses to film tutorials. What do I need take this wireless? I know most people use Accsoons and some have moved to things like the YoloBox. If yall were starting from “scratch” which direction would you go? Money is not an issue but I would prefer to not throw crazy money at this. I am not planning streaming major events or anything. Just our local monthlies/weeklies. I do want to use OBS as I am already familiar with it. Please point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance for the help!

chuckwurt

If I started from scratch, I would go with two accusoons for player and score, then a cosmos c2 for playfield. That’s a pretty bulletproof setup for wireless. The stuff that @dri and others do it way over my head, but seems to work really well for them. I’ll let them chime in.

dri

Well, if you have crazy money, TeraDek are built for broadcast. :wink:

Making the Yolo S3 “wireless” you first need to convert it to HDMI: Amazon.com: OBSBOT UVC to HDMI Adapter 2.0, for Tiny 2, Tiny 4K/1080P, Meet 4K/1080P, UVC Webcams : Electronics

Yeah, don’t do what I do unless you know what you’re doing. I use a 4K60 HDMI multiviewer that sends a 4K canvas with up to four cameras that I convert to NDI and put on a network that is a meshed tri-band that give me up to 500-600Mbit/s for the image (as opposed to 4-6Mbit/s for the 1080p60 Accsoon’s).

The general benefit of using a multiviewer is that you only capture one video signal so everything is in perfect sync at all times and you don’t need quad capture cards (does your legion have a thunderbolt port?) or complicated stacks of USB capture cards that will give you nothing but trouble.

The absolute best quality at the lowest price point (this is a < $300 solution) is to use a 1080p60 multiviewer with the good 'ol Monoprice WiHD transmitters. Superb quality at the expense of line of sight that is absolutely crucial. I did a comparison of this in this video: https://youtu.be/1RC6P9AKORE

DGBenke

Saying Money is not an issue but I don’t want to throw crazy money at it means that I can afford to get whatever I need but would prefer to find a solution that provides good quality (doesn’t have to the best possible) at a reasonable price. This is not saying I want the cheapest solution. I just want a relatively high quality solution… let’s call that 1080p 60fps that I can roll around a venue and broadcast from a laptop. I’m not trying to be a professional broadcaster. It’s just part of the pinball hobby that I would like to get into.

As for the S3… I only mention this USB cam bc I was under the impression that something like the Yolobox makes it possible to wirelessly transmit USB and HDMI signals. Maybe I misunderstood how that works.

I realize that I am trying to simplify a very complicated system. I appreciate all of the help and feedback. Hopefully I will be able to order some more equipment soon and yall will what kind of content I want to put out.

DGBenke

What is a cosmos I am not familiar with that.

DGBenke

Also yes the laptop has a thunderbolt port.

chuckwurt

Wireless hdmi transmitter from hollyland.

DGBenke

What is the benefit of the Hollyland transmitter over the accsoon?

I might be willing to pay up for it but just curious what the main differences are

DGBenke

I don’t think line of sight would be a big problem in most of the venues I would be streaming from as they are mostly single rooms. However, I we do often have 50+ people playing and I saw one post talking about the system not working well once a lot of people showed up. I’m assuming bc the constant flow of people were often blocking the signal. Also, one of the venues is an empty house with many small rooms/walls. I am the IFPA state tournament director for South Carolina and one of the main reasons I want to get this setup is so I know we have a quality stream for State every year. It has been difficult trying to cobble together a stream and the person who has helped the last couple of years had a major issue with the IFPA and no longer wants to help.

What would you recommend getting for when line of sight may be an issue? I would likely rather pay more for the convenience of not having to worry about line of sight.

chuckwurt

Zero stuttering. Completely smooth, always smooth feed. We discussed it at length in this thread if you scroll back a bit or search keywords.

dri

No, the other thread.

Yes, Yolos, Magewell Director and the OBSbot Talent are able to connect USB cams. You then compose most of your program on the rig and use either a HDMI transmitter or BYO network with NDI/SRT/RTMP to get your stream off the rig to your laptop for more overlays and re-encoding for Twitch/YouTube etc. I’ve never used any of these myself but I can see why some folks would find them useful.

Then you can get an external Thunderbolt enclosure and do 4 x HDMI capture, which I strongly recommend if you go with 3 x HDMI transmitter + 1 commentator camera.

A very common problem with HDMI transmitters. Each transmitter introduces at two new WiFi networks, some of them are tri-band (3 networks per transmitter). I helped install a rig at a venue where the transmitters brought down the payment system for the arcade games and pinball machines. If you have an Android phone, you can use WiFiAnalyzer to find free bands (usually in the upper ranges).

I had to switch to a BYO network solution because one of my locations is like a maze of rooms and games everywhere and the place is packed during big tournaments. I use two Linksys MR7500 and get maybe one or two stutters during a 12 hour stream. I’ve also used various TP-link in the past but they somehow just give up after a while which is weird so I would avoid that brand altogether.

Buuuut, I’m the outlier and you’ll be in better company if you use the cookie cutter solution everyone else is using because it’s easy and convenient.

I don’t want to dog anyone’s stream etc but compare for yourself:

Follow the ball, watch people walk past behind players etc. The ball stutter and rubberbanding can be mitigated with the Hollyland Cosmos C1 as reported by many others.

DGBenke

I hate that stutter. I will definitely invest in the cosmos for playfield cam if it will reduce that significantly.

For your BYO network solution what ISP/mobile network are you using? What does that plan look like?

Also for the Magewell/Yolobox is the main draw back the fact that the stream is multiple cams on one feed? Therefore the resolution for each camera is compressed?

dri

I use Internet provided by the venues. I have a 5G puck but I’ve never bothered using it as I can’t find a plan that fit my needs. If I need mobile I just tether with my phone which is on Google Fi.

In a way yes, none of these AIOs (All-In-One) boxes does more than 1080p60 (yes, some do 4K30, but we don’t do 30 fps) so whatever leaves the AIO is what you have to deal with in OBS on your laptop. I rather have 1080p60 from each camera that I can crop/rotate/scale in OBS as I please, which I get with a 4K60 canvas. I usually just have three cameras in a tournament setup.

The other drawback is my fear of how sustainable support is going to be for these AIOs and prefer to have the ability to have each function the AIO perform on a separate device which is a multiviewer, NDI encoder and networking. More gear to haul and connect but more peace of mind, granular flexibility and better overall quality IMHO.

If I had to choose, I would go with the Magewell Director One as every product I’ve used across their portfolio has performed flawlessly and the support has been great when I’ve had questions.

DGBenke

What 4x capture would you get?

chuckwurt

The feedback I received was that the cosmos C2 eliminates the stutter.

dri

Magewell is the flagship card I recommend. Some folks use the Blackmagic but I have no experience with it. SonnetTech makes good external cases (I dropped mine from chest height with the Magewell in it onto a concrete floor, it kept trucking). StarTech is another reputable brand I’ve seen others use.

If the external case is a bit of a turn-off, Acasis makes a more slick solution but I can’t vouch for it. Windows only. They also make a cheap quad PCIe card, YMMV.

chuckwurt

I had a black magic and it had issues immediately. Maybe I got unlucky. But have had Magewell for like 4-5 years and no issues. Make sure and get some small hdmi extenders to put at the card that are flexible so your hdmi cables that go to the cameras don’t stress the ports on the card.

DGBenke

Can you show me a pic of what you mean?

Again thank all of you for all of the insight and expertise. This is extremely helpful for me and anyone getting into the game now will benefit greatly from this discussion.

Still hoping to get some personal experiences from people who have tried the All-in-One solutions.

I am getting the message that this crowd just believes in separate transmitters and that likely will be the way I go but if possible I’d love to get the other perspective.

chuckwurt
dri

This is good advice if you already have stiff HDMI cables. If you’re buying new cables, I can highly recommend. Monoprice Ultra Slim series.

Check this post (and video) in the other streaming thread. That’s the first-gen Magewell Director.

Edit: If @reclaimarcade is running the same setup, here’s a newer video of an actual tournament: https://youtu.be/hPAMFtyvBoM

reclaimarcade

Yep, in fact we just did a full day tournament running it. We use SRT rather than NDI at the moment but we’re very happy with how it all comes together for a professional stream and it’s been super reliable. I’m using DJI Mic 3s for the game audio (transmitter in one of the cameras, receiver magnetically attached to the game speaker) and sending that over the SRT signal.

DGBenke

Can you explain your setup (cameras transmitters, capture cards, etc) and talk about your experience with it? Pros/cons?

reclaimarcade

Standard 8020 rig with a ZV1 mounted for playfield, a ZV1 mounted for scorecam, and a Razer Kiyo Pro Ultra webcam for player. These are all plugged into the Director Mini where I have a gameplay scene built out that just includes a layout of the three cameras with borders and a background. That all gets streamed wirelessly via SRT to our commentator booth where a PC running OBS brings that in and adds logos, text, commentators webcam and that’s where streaming to Twitch happens. No capture cards required and rig does not require any line of sight. One con used to be lack of inputs (2 HDMI, 2 USB) but new Director Plug being announced this month would resolve that easily.

DGBenke

Can you explain the SRT of the setup? I am not familiar with this

reclaimarcade

You could try NDI to start and see if that works for you, we just had better luck with SRT. This is a good starter guide SRT Protocol Streaming Guide | OBS Essentially with SRT you are setting up a “Caller” and “Listener” using IP addresses and port numbers. The caller is the Director Mini streaming out and the listener is the source in OBS receiving the signal. In our experience it’s great quality and fairly low latency. NDI is a bit nicer in that you can just give the stream a name and stream out via NDI and an NDI plugin in OBS will see any active NDI streams in your network. Either options can work and it’s worth experimenting.

DGBenke

A little update on my set up. I have 3 accsoons on the way + an additional ZV1 to go with the one I have. So I will have a ZV1 for the playfield and player cams, a Sony 440x for the score cam, and a yolo S3 for the commentators cam. I ordered the ACASIS 4x hdmi card/case and the small HDMI extensions mentioned to reduce strain on the card ports. As mentioned before I have the Rig already. The next thing I need reccs on are batteries, lights, and mics. I have clamp on usb lights right now but I don’t think they are the long term solution. I have Shure mic for home but I won’t be taking that with me. Again thanks in advance for all of your help!

dri

I’ve switch from cheap disruptive power banks to professional non-disruptive power with Core SWX Snap Extreme. I recently did a video on this.

I use a Viltrox lights for the playfield at 80%/4200K and a tiny dim filler for the player with a Logitech Litra Glow. You can power the Viltrox with a 12V barrel to USB-PD cable and the Logitech runs on 5V (it has a USB-C socket).

For mics I use 3 x Rode VideoMicro II plugged into a mini-mixer. If your camera doesn’t support setting the mic-input to line-level you’ll need a line-to-mic attenuation cable.

OFK

Anyone of you using ndi as video stream. Also Bird Dog got some neat cameras.

dri

Since TILT forums is shutting down, I posted a migration path in the other streaming thread.

Razorcrest

I’m about to embark on this pinball streaming journey. Is tnutz the way to go now because of the cost? BOMing out at 8020 today and it’s about ~$900 USD shipped to California. TNUTZ is about ~$400 using the super mobile version Karl listed out here: Wireless Pinball Rig v3 - Google Sheets