The player in this case said he took responsibility for the drain - so you would side with him and say he was at fault? XD
Siding with a player means siding with a ruling that would benefit them. If there was a major malfunction and a player lost the ball and simply accepted this, I would let them know they need to play another ball. If they want to plunge that ball and walk off, they can but I (The TD) upheld the IFPA/PAPA rules which is what i try to accomplish. .
If I was at the event and this was the final ball in the match I would try to recreate the problem before I made a ruling. I know this is not always possible though.
I still donât see how one can argue if a TD rules this a major malfunction and gives the player another ball. If you play on WCS and can cradle a ball on left flipper for 5, 10, 15, 20+ seconds without an issue but on this one you can only cradle for 10 before a magnet pulse causes ball to drain, I would consider that a major malfunction. Personally I wouldnât use the game if possible.
âA major malfunction is a gameplay problem with a machine that results in the premature loss of ball in play in a fashion that is not a normal feature of the machineâs gameplay. These may be unusual one-time events, or they may indicate a recurring problem that will need to be addressed by technicians.â
Unless it was only like that to the one player and not the same for everyone else I am not sure what the argument is here.
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Did this game have a credit dot? I would think a WPC game would create a credit dot pretty quick for a broken EOS switch. Was this a location game, no keys? Pretty rare for a WPC game to have a broken EOS switch. Wondering if this was a location game with priors going in.
Itâs not a broken EOS itâs the lower opto on the flipper optic board. With AFM you canât do the video mode or lane change if the lower optics are out but the flippers will work fine.
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Yep. Flipper opto board was replaced the next day.
Yes it had a credit dot? if yes, was it there when you started?
Just wondering if an ounce of prevention (proper setup) wouldâve avoided this entire humungous thread.
Credit dots can be little trustworthy. Some games have dots under normal to semi-normal conditions. Let alone in a competition setting where a game may invite to âone strategy onlyâ.
Twilight Zone presents a dot if the game is selected for virtual power ball. Other games have dot-account active switches on impossible shots or secret lanes that may only rarely see any action. Star Trek TNG seems to be one that will commonly light up the dot on a 100% mechanical/electrical game.
I am not sure about WCS having a dot/test report on flipper button optos. But even so, and even if players where made aware of this, who would be alert, that the game would grab the ball off a cradle and take it down the drain.
The dot is not an indication of error. It is a reminder to check stuff. And it will not show up until a couple of hands full of games played.
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I donât remember if it had a credit dot.
This is just not a major malfunction according to the rules. The magnet pulse did not directly 100% cause the drain. Yes, itâs a malfunction; no, it does not get compensation.
Anytime you rule in favor of a player you are also ruling against other players, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly. Do players also get compensation for failed kickbacks? bad scoop kickouts? phantom tilts? slingshot failing to fire? None of these are considered major malfunctions.
Ah, a kickback failing to fire is another case I was going to ask about; Iâve seen this ruled both ways. This one feels more like a clear cut major malfunction to me; a kickback not firing seems very much like it directly 100% causes a âpremature loss of ball in playâ.
Now in some cases Iâve seen a machine marked with a note that the kickback does not work. Obviously there wouldnât be a consolation ball here since it doesnât work for anyone and is a known issue. The case where I saw a consolation ball awarded was one where the kickback completely failed to fire (but did play the kickback sound effect) for one player after working 100% for every player before and after that instance during that game. I was one of the players that was âruled againstâ in that game but it felt like a fair ruling to me.
I appreciate your response and im leaning towards changing my position based on your feedback and referencing the rules below:
âNote that unrepeated physical failures, such as kickbacks or balls jumping off ramps, balls flying over flippers, or balls moonwalking into the outlane following a successful shot do not qualify as major malfunctions. This is the physical nature of pinball.â
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As recently as 5 years ago (PAPA 15 final) this was ruled a major malfunction, but other similar situations (moonwalks) were not. Some rule changes PAPA and IFPA made have now clarified that they feel that anything physical in nature, especially freak occurrences, are not malfunctions: âthatâs pinballâ.
Thereâs definitely been an evolution in rules in many regards: death saves and bang backs are no longer allowed, for example. This is one place where I think the rules are now more respectful of pinballâs physicality and that weird things happen.
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Sure, if the game didnât have the opto error then the issue wouldnât have occurred and this thread wouldnât have been made. I think threads like this are interesting and necessary though. Hearing about niche malfunctions and how theyâre ruled is one of the ways to get TDs on the same page with consistent rulings and for players to understand their responsibility and for what they will and will not be compensated.
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If the game had a credit dot due to the bad switch, the setup guy wouldâve had a huge clue that something was wrong. Credit dot for bad clock optos on TZ, sure, play on. But a bad flipper switch is big. Iâm guessing the bad switch prevented lane changes on the upper rollovers from at least one flipper. A player should know that going in, if youâre going to play that way.
While these threads may be good for determining how a TD should react to certain situations, many of these situations could be avoided with proper setup. The role of the setup guy is just as important as the role of the TD. I donât think many people realize this. Theyâre often reacting to a problem that shouldnât have happened in the first place. Thatâs what frustrates me.
Hate to sound like a broken record, but was this a location game? No keys? No setup?
It was a location game that gets a lot of league play. Lane change was later determined to work with the right flipper. Keys were present but it wasnât addressed until the next morning, as it was late in the tournament.
I think the more complex you make major malfunction rules the more cans of worms you are going to open. Giving a ball back for that then I want my X-Men right ramp SDTM ball back from circuit 2014 
The simpler the rules the less Lefkoffing shenanigans can take place. Flippers going dead from broken wire or bad ball trough optos = Major. Everything else minor⌠play on IMO. For every time you get screwed on a drain I guarantee you have also had a Lazarus or two in that time frame.
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This is a super easy one. No compensation.
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Yes. Would could say that it is big issue. But the question here is whether issues are qualifying a compensation if and when discovered midgame.
Sure, ideally, a TD should take games out if they have issues. If no immediate fix. But in my experience, generally, games are kept on with a remark of the issues.
I believe a practical approach to these matter will be the best for both players and TDâs. Expect the game to punch you in the face once in a while. And donât drown the game in rules.
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Agree. Now here is a can of wormsâŚ
Isnât there games where the flippers are pulsed as part of the ball search solenoid trip? Been trying to remember where I have seen this.
Imagine managing to trap up two balls during multiball, which you should, because you have a stock ball. Phew, everything is in order. Then the game runs a ball search and pops them into play again. Talking about a royal screw over.