Rubber feet for CAX

We are looking to see if anyone can bring some rubber feet for the games at CAX. There have been a lot of problems at past events with agressive moves knocking the cameras out of position, and we’d like to try and accommodate for that. If anyone can bring any number of rubber feet for us to borrow at CAX that would be great! Label them with your name and drop them off at the tourney area Friday, ideally before 5:00 so we have time to adjust for them.

Thanks!

[insert complaints from players about not being able to do slide saves here]

[complaint from player about not being able to do slide saves] :slight_smile:

I can bring a set.

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[compliment from player who has to play next to Gene’s attempted slide saves]

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Bringing 8 sets myself, and you can blame me for the lack of slide saves as this was my request :stuck_out_tongue:

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Anything for the cameras!

You can still move the game enough to save center drains but, the legs don’t give/slide. Not sure which is worse for the games. Its easier to tilt out but, that’s never stopped me from trying :slight_smile:

New wording that just made it into the IFPA/PAPA rules today:

“Any player who moves a game to the point it slides off of a rubber foot beneath the game’s leg will be given a score of zero for the game. A tournament director will then attempt to put the game back onto the rubber foot. If successful, the game will continue. If a tilt-through occurs, the appropriate tilt-through procedure will be followed."

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@pinwizj is there any way for those of us who officiate local tournaments using the IFPA/PAPA ruleset to get notified when the ruleset is updated? Or just view a log of changes somewhere?

There is a changelog on the PAPA site but I don’t have the URL handy.

I found it although it doesn’t include the rubber feet change (josh just told me about that earlier today)

http://papa.org/papa-tournaments/official-rules/complete-papa-ruleset/version-updates/

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I hope there’s more than that to the rule. If I don’t tilt the game, but I knock it off one of the feet and get a zero, I’m gonna be disappointed in a big way.

Although I likely won’t be competing at CAX this weekend, I also don’t like the idea of adding feet just for the cameras. The carpet at CAX has done just fine for many years without feet or cameras. Seems to me that if the setup guys have done their job properly, this shouldn’t be a big problem.

When we played on concrete at PPE, the EM’s would sometimes slide 6 inches or more away from the tape squares they were centered in. Without tilting. That was fun. If nothing else, leave the feet off the EM’s. Rubber feet should only be for concrete or tile floors IMO.

I respectfully submit that this is BS. Since when has “rubber foot status” had anything to do with competitive pinball? If a tournament director don’t want me moving the game, adjust the tilt bob accordingly, so I can get tilt warnings in a way that I can recognize.

And what if a rubber foot gets partly or even completely dislodged by player A, but no one notices until player B (or C or D) is in action? Experienced tournament players know to allow a certain amount of time if the previous player made a violent move of the machine (whether or not it resulted in a tilt). Are all players now expected to do a pre-plunge inspection of all rubber feet before each ball?

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I’ll always note when the last change was made on our IFPA/PAPA ruleset page here:

http://www.ifpapinball.com/rules

I included a link to PAPA’s change log that should hopefully show the changes that continue to get made over time.

With respect to this rule being added, I know Mark is concerned about Pinburgh being on a glossy concrete surface that is insanely easy to slide games around like they are on ice. This has led to them going the rubber foot route, which has led to him writing up this paragraph to handle the “What happens if . . .” situations that will no doubt happen.

As a proponent of the ‘slide save’ personally I think rubber feet are the devil, however I can understand the need to oversee player conduct in situations where a game can be moved across a material amount of space. Even without rubber feet, people sliding a Congo 6 feet to the right butting up to the game next to it impacts not only the next Congo player (is the game still level?), but also impacts the player next to it (maybe that person now can’t flip without touching the hand of the player that’s next on Congo). All of this is possible without the game having tilted, but certainly falls within the realm of ‘interference’ as part of player conduct.

I see a future at some point for taping an area where the leg leveler is either in an acceptable position, or it’s not, and the current player must leave the game within that area before the next player goes up to play or else they would receive a score of 0.

For now, we (IFPA) have no problem following PAPA’s lead on explicitly calling out how to handle games with rubber feet.

With respect to Joe’s ‘what if’ questions, the deciding factor after confirming with MHS is whether any portion of the leg leveler is physically in contact with the ground. If any portion of it is, then it’s a 0 for that player. If any portion of it isn’t even though the leveler isn’t settled in the cup fully, then it’s play on.

As for players not realizing if/when it became dislodged, that’s an easy one. When you go up to play, you are responsible for the state of the game after you start playing. So do a quick check if you are able, because if you start playing the game with the leg leveler out of the cup, and the next player goes up and calls a TD over about it, that previous player is going to be held responsible.

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Thanks Josh. After the unification I’ve been using the IFPA page because I can remember the URL. I just didn’t see the changes Greg mentioned when I went there yesterday. I’m just too quick!

We try to follow the IFPA/PAPA rules as closely as possible in our local tournaments. This is mainly because they cover everything, but also because our players will have no surprises when they graduate to play in the larger tournaments. Hopefully any SFPD players we send down to CAX this weekend will know what to expect and how to behave :slight_smile:

I have seven games on rubber feet at one of our league locations due to the tile floor. Many players who are known to put big moves on games have played there, and I don’t feel like any game has even come close to sliding off of a foot. No way you could get one of them off a footie without some seriously abusive action.

Most of them have pretty liberal tilts, as I suspect the rubber feet can sometimes add to the motion of the game after you’ve moved it. The tilt bob on my demoman is perfectly centered, and as liberal as possible, but still almost always double-danger-tilts. I’m curious to try the polyurethane versions, since I assume they are harder, and so would let the game settle sooner, but they are pricey.

The rubber feet I use tend to grip the levelers pretty tight. Perhaps there are different feet out there where this isn’t true? I can see then how one could get a game a good couple inches off the ground doing a big save, and end up with a leveler losing it’s foot.

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Holy crap! Knocking the game off rubber feet would take some serious hulk rage tilt! Lol

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What happens if I knock one foot off but don’t tilt Josh? Do I stop playing and get a zero?

I saw Neil do this recently on a location game with a somewhat tight tilt. (the Kiss at Hi Life if anyone wants to try) Granted tournament tilts are generally tighter than location games, but after seeing Neil smoothly do it, I have no doubt this scenario will come up in tournament play. Better have a ruling ready for it.

The tilt has nothing to do with this rule. This is about ‘player interference’, more specifically for a match play style event like Pinburgh where after you knock one foot off and drain, it’s now my turn.

Should I be forced to play a game that’s ‘not level’ now because one of the legs is no longer in the correct position?

The fact you tilted or didn’t tilt is completely irrelevant. You interfered with my play, and yes you would get a zero for that.

That’s my understanding of why the rule was added.

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I look forward to the first instance of someone sacrificing their crappy bonus to put the legs on the rims to screw with the other players.

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