Just D gets cleaned
@shimoda ā very detailed and candid feedback. Iām not an organizer of Pinburgh or PAPA, but thought Iād offer my thoughts to some of the points you madeā¦
Sorry that you got a tilt-through, but the tilt bob doesnāt just conjure that up out of thin air. It sucks, but it happens. Itās happened to Bowen, too, on a bigger stage than Round 6 of Pinburgh. Itās OK to to be mad/upset at the pin or yourself, but not OK to be crabby/pissed at any tourney director who interprets the rules correctly. If only all early pins had the logic built into them that early Sterns did!
And as a counter-point to your being mad at your 1.5 wins scored for 2nd place in a 3-player group ā you have to consider that you only defeated one other person for those 2ndās. So why should they be valued as highly as a 2nd in a 4-player group where that 2nd place represents defeating 2 other players?
Regardless, I agree with your assessment that having 3-player groups play 6 pins instead of 4 pins is the most āfairā way to handle things, with no multiplier ā simple 2,1,0 scoring for each game. But then you run into the logistics of what additional 2 games for each 3-player group to play? Perhaps 2 off of the āsparesā against the back wall, randomly chosen from two different eras?
I discussed the notion of warm-up on each bank with some other players as well. The biggest problems there are: time, and coordination/enforcement. Mathematically, 30 seconds of test play on each of 4 pins for a 4-player group is 8 minutes of added time to each round. Considering that youāre never going to have perfect 30-second segments, Iād say 10 minutes is a closer approximation. Thus, 5 rounds each day means the day runs 50 minutes longer. Next is enforcement: When to begin the play-test time? Who announces/enforces when itās time to switch? I wouldnāt want to begin my round against people having to deal with one of us playing bad cop to another insisting that their 30-second interval is up. Takes away from the friendly/social vibe.
Last, anyone that makes it to the X finals at a big event like PAPA or Pinburgh is indeed restricted to X or higher. And anyone making it to the final four of X finals is restricted to one level higher (amongst other critera). I donāt disagree that some of the final 4 of B-D had a couple players that I would have expected playing in a higher division, but the criteria that Pinburgh uses for division restrictions is never going to be perfect.
Hope to see you at Pinburgh next year!
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This was something I fought for a number of years at IFPA for the same reasons, time/enforcement/etc.
Itās amazing how much little impact itās had on our ability to stay on schedule. As for enforcement since we only have 64 players to deal with most of those players having a ton of tournament experience, the players handle this well via the honors system. Most people know what they are looking to get out of practice (feeds from kickouts, tilt setting, couple of practice shots). Some players were sticklers pulling out the stopwatch which is fine, and some players donāt really care as they were learning bounces from the other players practice time as well.
I finally gave in and added the practice time a couple of years back, and very rarely do we make a change that gets 100% player approval, but this was one of them 
I will say this definitely helps with the HOVERING that goes on at Pinburgh where you are trying to see feeds/bounces while other players are playing before you go to step up and play. Nothing like the feeling of 6 eyes behind you watching the kickout from the chair on Addams for the first time.
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I agree that the honors system would be the best way to approach it. It happens at PAPA (although timed) and itās a godsend for exactly the reasons Josh mentions.
Start a single game on each machine in the bank, and have people cycle through.
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Just to clarify, I donāt feel that I was pissed off at Bowen at all. I was upset, really upset, so I walked away for a few minutes to collect myself. That was when Bowen was talking to my group. I approached him to ask something, say something, and he said we could go talk to the group, I acknowledged knowing the rule and that it wouldnāt matter.
In some ways I think I messed up anyway by walking away so quickly. When I left the machine, I saw my score but didnāt see the tilt light on. Iām not saying anyone else hit the machine, but I never saw the tilt light and was away from the machine when the next player went up to play. I can only say that I was gentle with every EM I played. The whole tilt-through thing doesnāt seem the best way to deal with it but I canāt think of a better way. That said, tilt should be penalty enough and yeah, itās messed up that Sternās didnāt do that but every other machine does. Crazy. If I had rage tilted, or even just been nudging at all, much less aggressively I can see it. I wasnāt. I guess itās a bit like when you see a player do a slide save and move the machine several inches and maybe get a danger, then you do one little nudge and you get double danger or tilt. Blerg.
I also agree that beating two people is easier than beating three, but it also assumes youād loose to the fourth player unless you win, in a way. I think playing six games makes more sense anyway because it doesnāt mathematically transfer points like multiplying by 1.5. Frankly I would have much rather gotten points from playing 6 games in a three player setting as itās 50% more playing to determine the leveling in that group. Given how long it took us, we easily could have played two more games in the same time frame.
As for testing time, players get that in finals/final 40. I donāt think it would take so long. For SS games itās not as important, but for EMs set as tight as some of these were, I think it should be an option. Granted, many players will have experience on machines that others donāt and you canāt avoid it, but I think it might turn off newer players when the advantages not related to skill (knowledge of a particular machine) are minimized. Top players will still be top players but it might make entry a bit smoother. Maybe itās just me, but Iāve been having a hard time making finals at any tournament. I figured that I would have a better chance at Pinburgh because I figured Iād probably end up in a good fit division for me. Then when better players are below me in D with scores reset, and Iām in C starting out several points back, it just seems like quite the uphill battle. Personally Iād like to see both C and D divisions reset points. The bottom guy in C started out more than 10 points back from the top 40 crowd yet was still put in C. Itās a very long climb considering how broad the spectrum of players are.
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I was playing Surfer and got a phantom tilt, my next ball i tilted through and we discovered the tilt bob broke and was laying on the ring . We wound up starting a new game from scratch. Just saying the tilt bob can have a mechanical failure as it did for us.
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The bottom guy in C division was restricted to C, which means heās in the top 500 in the world (or has some other strong qualifying criteria on his resume). The ānaturalā cutoff for the C division was only 3.5 points from the top of the division.
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I qualified last in C and had the restriction because I qualified for C finals in March.
I slept about 4 hours each night and was a zombie during the event. I do think I could of still qualified for C finals as I went from 20 points Thurs to 32.5 on Fri and felt I played poorly on both days.
Niiiiice. Wow, thatās a new one. I stand corrected. Glad you got the tech to open the coin door and inspect the tilt bob.
Yea, Bowen opened the door to give it a look as he heard a buzzing noise coming from the area.
I played that Surfer after the finals were over, and it was still doing that. Phantom tilting every other ball. Not sure the issue was really fixed.
People tank to get into D now that qualifying pays $200. With prize money on the line the points shouldnāt reset IMO. Not sure why they reset in only that division.
Had a really, really great time. Got put into A for day 2, but I didnāt do great and ended up tied for 114th. But that meant tying with Roger Sharpe and Lyman Sheats among others, so thatās cool. 
Spent most of Saturday watching the A playoffs/finals and that was lots of fun too. Kudos to the whole PAPA/ReplayFX team. It was an awesome event and I canāt wait for next year.
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I wasnāt there, but I watched on twitch, and at least from a spectatorās point of view I can confirm that online live standings are a big deal. I guess Iām a bit spoiled that way, because on every stream Iāve watched so far that did offer live standings, those were updated rigorously. Did you guys have any technical problems with the Google doc? The last update was well before the stream even started.
Apart from that, great broadcast, and thanks for keeping on doing this well after the original Kickstarter campaign.
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This was my first Pinburgh.
I didnāt know how I was going to measure up. I had played in PAPA 18 qualifying in the C Division, so I assumed that I could do as well as that - maybe get to B Division? I didnāt think that the match-play format was going to play to my strengths. I can qualify well because I progressively get better the more I play a pin. But, thus far, I typically lose in the first round of finals when I qualify due to a combination of amateur mistakes and bad luck. Single gamesā¦ I didnāt know how it was going to goā¦
I went into it with low expectations. I wanted to get into C Finals, at the very least, if I ended up in C Division. Beyond that, please, just let me win at least one game among four people. Iāll be satisfied to win just one game.
I wasnāt nervous at all. Came in with a lot of game knowledge because Iāve been studying, and attending a ton of small tournaments in the past year.
I won a game in my first round! Mustang with 116 million. Really boosted my confidence. Ended up with a 7 to start. Second round, I won 3 out of the 4 games!! Got a 10 in the second round. What, what?! Now Iām feeling really good.
And the rest of the day, I averaged 7s and 8s. Many times, I expected to get a zero on a game, but somehow there was someone else tanking it even worse than me. It felt like I was charmed. And, I was really surprised how well I was playing - very focused, very quick in my reflexes, nudging skillfully, utterly relaxed and happy to play my game. Watching amazing play from other players, learning, adaptingā¦ What a great day!
By the end of Thursday, I was qualified for the A Division! I was so happy and excited. I knew that it was going to be really difficult to get into the A Finals, but it didnāt matter. I was there for the experience, not the prize money. And I had already met my personal goals; I had already won the tournament for myself. My prize was getting to watch the very best players in the world play beside me all day on Friday. I continued to play without any sense of pressure or expectation. 
Met a lot of very friendly, encouraging players. Watched a lot of beautiful pinball playing, and executed some of my own! Ended up tied for 121st, one point below Lyman Sheats and Roger Sharpe! Even the consolation tournament went well for me, and I lasted 4 rounds.
I had the very best tournament experience I have ever had. It has boosted my confidence tremendously, and I feel very encouraged to keep improving my game!
Thank you to all the organizers, volunteers, techs who made ReplayFX and Pinburgh possible. It ran so smoothly! Thank you PAPA for all the video resources, tutorials, game rule sheets, etc. They make all the difference.
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This was my first out of state tournament and I had no idea what to expect. Given the IFPA restrictions for the C Division, I wondered if thatās where I would end up.
I didnāt feel any pressure and played relaxed all day Thursday. Even though Iāve found that I play better if I donāt watch my opponents and obsess about their scores, I watched everyone like a hawk so I could learn the rules of games I didnāt know (which was most of them) and get a sense for how the ball moved. This was immensely helpful - and then when I stepped up to the table I could do things that I wouldnāt have been able to do had I not been paying attention.
I had spent the two or three weeks leading up to Pinburgh playing mostly Joker Pokerā¦even though about 95% of my play is on DMDs. So in a pretty short period of time I felt much more comfortable on older machines, and it paid off - I won 4 out of the 5 EM machines on day oneā¦and did pretty well on the early solid states too.
I was ranked 35th at some point and was deservedly crushed in my next group, but ended up comfortably making it into the A Division.
I donāt think I realized how well I had played on Thursday until Friday came along. Seemed like each round was worse than the previous. It was a good combination of not playing well and not so great luck - it felt like every missed shot hit a post and went STDM. My groupmates werenāt putting up big scores either - I was just missing opportunities everywhere. I actually had a painful 0 on Round 9.
But my last round went better, and so did the consolation. Once Friday was a distant memory, I could be happy and proud of how it went overall.
The whole thing was amazing, and a thousand thanks to the organizers and everyone involved for such a fantastic event. I would go back and do it again next month if I could.
I also live tweeted the entire event, including each game result as it happened. I highly recommend this to anyone who uses Twitter - even if the people who follow you arenāt into pinball. It felt like I had a cheering section from back home, and when I returned - everyone was talking about it and congratulating me. One of my friends who has never before expressed interest in pinball is meeting me at the arcade tomorrow night so I can show him the ropes - he was that intrigued!
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I had a very similar experience to the last two commenters on this thread. This was also my first Pinburgh and I came in expecting to to be in C or B division, but played my best, most consistent tournament pinball ever and qualified in A division with 36 points - two above the cutoff. I was just in the zone all day, making shots, getting bounces and rolls and just playing solidly. On Day 2 I really wasnāt expecting to make the finals, but in round 6, I somehow pulled a 9 out of my group with Adam Lefkoff and rocketed up to 31 seed. Round 7 had me playing against Josh Sharpe and another top 50 player and I was proud to eek out 5 points from that group.
I donāt really know what to blame it on, but after that round I simply just lost my magic. It was probably a combination of the pressure of realizing I was actually in this thing, the fatigue of playing for 2 straight days, and just the natural ebbs and flows that is pinball, but I just sunk in the last three rounds. Missing shots, making mistakes, and getting all those house balls that I had avoided on day 1. I took 4,3,3 to close out the tournament and ended up t-136 I think.
I was really really proud of myself for my accomplishments in the first 7 rounds (including beating Josh at Pinbot - @pinwizj do you hate how everyone marks their successes by the ONE game they beat you on?? ) but it was really tough to play so poorly for the final three rounds and I was pretty dejected for about another hour after the tournament ended before I could focus on all the positives again.
In the end, it was by FAR the absolute best tournament experience Iāve ever had. Iāve been living in the Detroit area this year and had to come just to take advantage of my proximity. Next year, Iāll be back in Portland, OR but Iām already thinking about how I can make the trip work so I can come out again.
As far as constructive criticisms go, really the only thing that was problematic in my opinion was the lighting during the evening rounds. Some of those games (freaking Robocop!!) were just impossible to see the ball. Same issue along the back wall. Seating wasnāt as big of an deal for me because I was watching every player play every ball anyways. Oh, I already mentioned this somewhere but having a leader board/scoreboard for A finals would have greatly improved the viewing experience.
All in all Pinburgh gets 100 stars!! Thanks @bkerins for this incredible event!!
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i went back in to the pinburgh results section to see where I ended up after each round which was very enlightening on how far down you fall after having a bad round .
first round ranked #264
second round #84
third round #63
fourth round #129 bad round
fifth round #216
then into B division for Friday
first round #15
second round #48
third round #23
fourth round #28
fifth round #45 great round to bump up to final ranking of #13
It wasnāt. We removed the machine from the tournament when we found that the tilt was malfunctioning and could not be repaired. Some other connection was causing tilt when the bob was not hitting the edge of its ring.
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I had a great time at Pinburgh. Played okay day 1 and seeded mid B and then hit the wall Friday. Played against some great players and on great machines.
My only complaint would be the lack of light in the later rounds. I know that everyone is playing the same game so everyone was affected but I have a really hard time seeing in the dark. The last two rounds on Friday seem to be the most important and I played my games in the darkest areas of the tournament. That was pretty frustrating.
All in all I was amazed at how smoothly everything ran and would never have known that there were 300 more people than last year. Next year Iāll bring my own chair and a headlamp.
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