PAPA 20 results online? (PAPA Scoring Software Feedback)

[Snailman]

@asg Tie-breakers in Finals didn’t show up.

[Snailman]

Headers on Finals pages show the incorrect Round, and sometimes “Match 0”

[ASG]

@bps

My proposed solution to this situation would be to require at least one game is played before calling again for a player that is skipped. When a player is skipped, add to a skip queue (if eligible). When a game is started, put the skip queue at the front of the game’s main queue.

It is the players responsibility to be present when their name is called. The “bumping one spot down the queue” generally handles situations like “there was a line at the bathroom”. It sucks that in your situation both the 1st and 2nd player in the queue were not present, but there are 500+ players at PAPA and we have to keep the lines moving.

One thing I noticed over the weekend was how loud things were at the banks on saturday. I didn’t notice any problems with scorekeepers being heard, but if you think we have a problem with volume then we can find ways to deal with that.

[ASG]

@nudgey

I think a simple solution would be to assign three scorekeepers to D Division, especially during last-minute qualification periods on Friday night and Saturday morning. In contrast, there were three scorekeepers in A Division. When I scorekept there, I had a lot of down-time since A players tend to have long ball times.

Sounds like someone just volunteered to recruit more scorekeepers for the 9-midnight shift on fri and saturday!

[ErinK]

I think this is partly intentional, since in general we don’t want players walking up and starting their own games without scorekeeper intervention (maybe they don’t have tickets, maybe they are stealing some practice balls…). But yeah, the workflow was tested more with full queues in mind (which was nearly always the case at Louisville where it was tested before) and could be smoother.

[ASG]

@cayle

I would also suggest:

Combine the “Player info” and “My Results” sections. I always expected both sets of information to be in the same place, and would often click the wrong one looking for the other data.

I would combine the “purchase tickets” and “purchase prices” There is a lot of room in the Existing tickets section to feed-forward the prices of those tickets.

In the purchase tickets section, if there are price breaks (like 3 for $12), Highlight them in the purchase screen drop down so players can see where the deals are (so, highlight every multiple of 3 in this case).

iirc the queues showed the average time each game took to play. I didn’t find this information useful as a player and would have rather it fed forward the estimated wait time until I would get to play should I join that queue (so, average game time X number of people currently waiting and playing).

Final note - I had to use my cell data as well - the network was hammered and it was unusable at times on the wifi. Was always speedy on my cell data. i would have loved more wifi bandwidth in a perfect world so i could have used that instead.

How often did you find yourself looking at the ticket prices? The assumption on our part was that it would be something you looked at a few times at the begining of the weekend, and then would probably not look at again. If you found yourself looking at it more often than we expected, we can figure out a way to better signal the prices on the purchase page.

Highlighting the “price breaks” in the purchase page pulldowns is difficult - for example, I could highlight “9” as a price break, but “7” also gives you a price break (you pay the discount price for 6 tickets and the normal price for one ticket) - if you have suggestions on how to highlight that information in a clear and concise way, please let us know - we couldn’t figure it out.

We will not (for the foreseeable future) be listing an “estimated wait time” because it’s not an estimate if it’s wrong half the time (which it would be if we based it on average times - if we were lucky) - at that point, it’s a guess. Once we collect enough actual wait time data, we might re-examine this.

[gammagoat]

@ASG

Did you find it common that the queue information changed significantly in the time it took you to go through the confirm screen? If that was a common occurence, then the app shouldn’t return you to the queue list for the machine - it should directly alert you to the fact that the change happened while you were queueing yourself.

In classics it was common. People generally queued on the shortest queue. I would say 25% someone got in before me. Sometimes you would expect to be 3rd and you end up 6th. I would not trust my human judgement, as it will have biased perception, but i can confidently say it was common.

[bps]

@ASG

It is the players responsibility to be present when their name is called.

Absolutely.

@ASG

we have to keep the lines moving

In my proposed solution, the line would have moved a minute sooner since player C was ready to go and I wouldn’t have had to call out for players A and B again.

Just a suggestion. I understand that the goal is to keep the onus on players to be ready when they’re called and you can’t get too forgiving without being unfair to the whole field.

[ErinK]

Is your expectation that when you go to a public spot like PAPA you should be able to use wifi as much as you want for whatever you want? Is it a hardship to have to use cellular data? This is an honest question, not a stealth judgement.

I know there were some discussions beforehand about how to support the tournament-critical functions while users were sharing public wifi with other attendees who might be streaming video/audio or uploading large photos or doing whatever. There was disagreement among the developers and testers about what counts as “reasonable” use of public wifi.

I also had times on wifi when I got server timeout errors and switched to cellular data and it worked fine.

I believe that most of the folks here are from the US, so let’s just acknowledge that people traveling from other countries and buying roaming service or a temporary phone likely have actual need for wifi (and it would be nice if PAPA provides it for them). But that’s a relatively small population.

[ErinK]

@gammagoat Were you queuing on a mobile phone or on the terminals? Assuming you refreshed the queue list on the phone before adding yourself? (I couldn’t find a way to do it on the terminal.)

[gammagoat]

@ErinK

@gammagoat Were you queuing on a mobile phone or on the terminals?

I was using my phone. Since it took about 3 clicks to add to queue, i was not surprised when someone got in before me. Often it was the person i was standing beside at the monitor racing.

[ASG]

@gammagoat

In classics it was common. People generally queued on the shortest queue. I would say 25% someone got in before me. Sometimes you would expect to be 3rd and you end up 6th. I would not trust my human judgement, as it will have biased perception, but i can confidently say it was common.

I’ll add “alert player when the queue has changed beneath them while queuing” to the todo list

[ASG]

@bps

In my proposed solution, the line would have moved a minute sooner since player C was ready to go and I wouldn’t have had to call out for players A and B again.

Just a suggestion. I understand that the goal is to keep the onus on players to be ready when they’re called and you can’t get too forgiving without being unfair to the whole field.

Ok - I misunderstood what your proposal was. I think I now understand what you are suggesting. I do appreciate the suggestion.

[G_Money]

Is it possible to segregate a network so that score keepers are one their own fully insulated/dedicated and properly powered network and everyone else is on another? It was all the activity on Saturday that actually slowed score keepers to a crawl.

[joe]

The scorekeeper tablets were indeed supposed to be running on the “PAPA Private” network, not the public network.

[Brian]

@ASG

But, even if we are just talking about a 100 rows, it still has a computational cost - granted that it is a small cost (it takes about .1 seconds to run the query and return JSON) - but that cost adds up quickly when you are talking about 200+ people trying to hit the system at once.

With indexing and caching this should not be a problem.

[G_Money]

@G_Money

Is it possible to segregate a network so that score keepers are one their own fully insulated/dedicated and properly powered network and everyone else is on another? It was all the activity on Saturday that actually slowed score keepers to a crawl.

So, disregard this, I spoke with Aiton and he confirmed that we were running on a segregated network, but near the area between classics and B the tablets might have been jumping back and forth between two routers (or somethings, I am not 100% sure what he said, only the part about jumping back and forth). I only worked that area Saturday and found that it was only an issue Saturday.

[Adam]

Hi @ASG , Great job with the initial release of your app. I appreciate the effort you’ve put into it. I think most of my feature requests have already been brought up by others, but I just wanted to check with you to see how I can delete my credit card information that was saved by the app, now that PAPA is over. I could not find a way to do this, and obviously, there is no reason to risk storing that information anymore.

cheers,

Escher’s Dad

[ASG]

@Brian

With indexing and caching this should not be a problem.

You ( and the earlier poster - sorry, I’m forgetting who it was ) are totally correct - the .1 time is insanely high for only a few hundred rows. That time is the result of me being sleep deprived over the past week.

For those who are interested, here is how that time came about : when I saw the post asking about the getting a list of previous machine scores, I put together some code to do it. I use an ORM for fetching data from the database - and in my haste, I ended up passing in a flag that caused the ORM to follow all foreign keys on the score table - which led to 5 or 6 extra queries - and then all the data that got collected got converted to json. This is what led to the .1 time - and I would have recognized it as completely insane if I hadn’t been on minimal sleep (due to both papa and product release at work this week).

The moral of the story : don’t post on TiltForum when you are extremely tired

[ASG]

@Adam

Hi @ASG , Great job with the initial release of your app. I appreciate the effort you’ve put into it. I think most of my feature requests have already been brought up by others, but I just wanted to check with you to see how I can delete my credit card information that was saved by the app, now that PAPA is over. I could not find a way to do this, and obviously, there is no reason to risk storing that information anymore.

cheers,

Escher’s Dad

There a few things you need to understand about the Papa Scoring Software. It uses a third party service called Stripe.com for doing credit card processing. The form that you enter your credit card info into is provided by Stripe, and once your info is entered it is sent to Stripe’s servers. The Papa Scoring Software server never receives your info, and your information is never stored on the phone app.

When you click the “remember my information”, you are giving Stripe permission to store your credit card info on their servers. A cookie is stored (by Stripe) in the app that tells stripe you have previously clicked the “remember my info” button, hence the “filled in” form when you return to it on the app. It’s been a while since I tried the feature out, but I believe a link is provided once you click the “remember my info” button - IIRC the link leads to an explanation of all this, and information about how to contact stripe with questions like yours.

So, to answer your question : there is nothing I can do directly to delete your credit card info. I have emailed Stripe support and asked what instructions you will need to follow to get your information removed from Stripe’s servers. I’ll post here when I get a response.