# Overly brutal set-ups on tournament games

#81

Edit: Evan was faster.

#82

But you canât finish a two ball game in one ball?

#83

Thanks for that, I missed this.

So, the only time so far I have seen LotR played with two balls was during a flip frenzy, where it was one of fifteen machines.

Looking at the section you quoted, thatâs in the change log. I canât find where in the rules themselves this is mentioned. Can you help out? Iâm trying to figure out whether this would apply to a flip frenzy. Regardless of the answer, I suspect it would make only a tiny fraction of a point difference?

Itâs possible during a flip frenzy to have the game âfinishedâ after one ball, if one player concedes. Sometimes, that is strategically the right thing to do. For example, if my opponent comes first and puts up a monster score, I can concede if I decide that running him/her down would take too long (assuming that I actually manage to do that). It often is better to get away from a machine quickly with a loss, than to spend a long time grinding out a win. But there is no âgoalâ that could be achieved in a single ball. Itâs simply two-person match play on each machine.

#84

I think the key to the rule is setting a game to less than 3 balls. Like other rules in IFPA, whatâs the quickest way to completion?

In the case of pingolf or gauntlet, itâs one ball, in the case of setting the game to two ball itâs, two balls.

#85

That would suggest that LotR in that frenzy then should count as â of the normal value of a machine. (I donât know how flip frenzy TGP is determinedâŚ)

#86

How many games the top qualifier played, I believe (multiplied by 4%).

#87

Makes me wonder what the most brutally set up game Iâve played was. EM house games aside, that junkyard from Louisville made me sick to my stomach to play, though others had success on it. X-men at the prior Louisville was difficult, and the Indy500. At PAPA I felt like an infant trying to play that monster bash in qualifying a few years back, and AFM last year. Avatar at PPO, RCT at pinburgh. All these stand out to me as games Iâve normally had success on but in these setups I couldnât get a hold of them. Having said that, I know most of them needed to be set up more difficult because of the caliber of players, former, etc. keep games difficult because it makes it more interesting and memorable

#88

Surely as long as the same for everyone the best players will cope? And those not good enough still arenât good enough (and I can say that not being good enough lol) Although my pet hates are over sensitive tilts unless you get a chance to practise or the sensitivity is consistent in the bank of machines and also scoops that dribble the ball out in a way that youâd never expect. The TAF at TPF caught a lot of folks out in this regard.

#89

Yep. Thatâs the way I understand it.

#90

Where are you seeing that at all?

#91

The pingolf rules. I guess since in this case the game is two ball due to a long playing game and youâre not trying to achieve a score or objective as quickly as possible, but makes sense to me that if you donât play at least three balls that doesnât count as a full game.

If one ball games counted full value, canât TDs just change formats to one ball games and get 100% TGP all the time?

#92

Makes sense to you, yeah. I can see your reasoning. I just donât see anything in the rules explicitly supporting it.

Iâd also argue that my that logic, if those two balls take longer than a three ball game on another machine, then shouldnât it count for more, not less? Deciding that some games of pinball arenât as valid competitionally is a very hairy route to go down in my opinion. In the end, two or more people competed on a game, and one was victorious.

#93

Maybe youâre right. Surprised some TDs havenât played the whole 1 ball game tournament card then. Could get to 100% TGP in no time. Hell could run multiple 100% TGP events in one night.

#94

Itâs the extrapolation of this verbiage:

âThe TGP will now include games played that are fewer than 3 balls, including timed formats where players are attempting to reach a score or objective as quickly as possible. Any game where itâs possible for the player to finish on the first ball in play, will be calculated at 33% value for TGP purposes.â

Any games set to 1 ball = 33% value, any games set to 2 ball = 66% value . . . any games set to timed/points goals that CAN be reached in 1 ball = 33% value.

Any games set to 3 balls or more count at 100% value.

#95

With respect to conceding a match, thatâs perfectly acceptable and doesnât discount the TGP of that game played.

However, there is a wrinkle here that is not acceptable to us, and thatâs conceding multiple matches by multiple players to âfast forwardâ through a tournament format, and trying to capture all of those âgames playedâ towards TGP.

Best example of a tournament is a 4-strike event with 28 players. The event gets down to two players who each have 0 strikes. Rather than playing potentially 7 more games, both players agree to forfeit 3 losses each and make their next game the âlast gameâ for the night.

We would definitely frown upon any event that tried to claim they ran a 4-strike tournament with 28 players and use the TGP guide that captures all those rounds that were believed to have been played.

#96

So thereâs an unworded implication that weâre supposed to apply that to 2 ball as well? But 4+ ball donât count extra even though the same logic would apply?

#97

Perhaps I was naive in assuming people were aware that 5 ball games have never been worth and arenât currently worth +1.66 TGP per game played. I would have guessed that this would have been brought up by TDâs who run a ton of Classics events as this would surely have been THE EXPLOIT to capitalize on.

Itâs now clear that we need to be more clear . . . updated verbiage is below:

âThe TGP will now include games played that are fewer than 3 balls, including timed formats where players are attempting to reach a score or objective as quickly as possible. Any game where itâs possible for the player to finish on the first ball in play, will be calculated at 33% value for TGP purposes. Any games set to 1-ball play will be worth 33% value. Any games set to 2-ball play will be worth 66% value. No games beyond 3 balls will be worth anything above 100% for TGP purposes. For example, if players have a goal of reaching a certain feature in a game as a way of winning that game or match, the fact that it is POSSIBLE for the player to reach that objective on ball 1 means this will count as 1/3rd of a game played towards TGP. The exception to this rule will be the Pin-Golf format, which will have itâs own set of grading rules (see next bullet points).â

#98

Alright, cool. Horrible rule and I hate it incredibly, but now nice and clear.

#99

#100

Youâre a little late with this idea - NYC Superleague was doing single-ball games and objectives like âfirst to start MBâ during their finals rather than real games to get to max TGP 2-3 years ago.

Wasnât the first or last IFPA TGP rule they exploited or forced to be updated.