Achievement unlocked: Trap 3 balls in multiball and raise your hand to get a ruling.
I don’t think that the intended amount of balls during a multiball state should have any bearing. There is single-ball state and multiball state.
To me, making a player drain a lazarus ball during multiball makes about as much sense as making a player drain a regular lazarus ball during single ball play.
The important difference in the Gagno ruling is that the lazarus created a situation where he had multiple balls in play during single-ball state. I honestly thought that the proper ruling was obvious in that situation, because I could have sworn there was some wording in the PAPA/IFPA ruleset about “multiple balls in single-ball state”. I was surprised to find no trace of such wording when I went to reference it.
I’ve never seen the Lazarus rule applied during multiball, and I anticipate it could run afoul of the rules relating to beneficial malfunctions if the number of balls in play determines things like playfield multiplier or jackpot value (e.g. Grand Lizard, NBA Fastbreak). However, as long as things like multipliers and jackpot values aren’t impacted and it doesn’t change the state of the game from one-ball to multiball, I personally would interpret the Lazarus language to cover the situation @chuckwurt described.
When a lazarus ball happens during single ball play (legal to play on), you have one ball in play when you should have zero balls in play (you drained).
A stuck ball during multiball allows the players to exploit the stuck ball. In this case, the extra ball doesn’t create a potential exploit.
My ruling would’ve been to play on. And I would add a single extra point to your final score for pulling off the rare MB lazarus. d;^)
No. I still disagree. Let’s differentiate here: What @chuckwurt described (similar to what happened to REG) is not merely a Lazarus – it’s a "Lazarus With Benefits."
Lazarus: ball drains between the flippers or via the outlane, and rebounds back into play between the flippers due to no nudging from the player.
Lazarus With Benefits: same as a Lazarus, but only applicable to an outlane Lazarus that also triggered a ball-save.
If you simply have a traditional Lazarus in MB, then yes, you have two balls still in play when you should have only had one ball. Play on.
But with an LWB, you gained one additional ball in play that you shouldn’t have had.
Do you get to play a multiball with an additional ball in play if the trough gives you two balls instead of one to begin your multiball? No. Same principle.
To go one step further, Jesus didn’t resurrect Lazarus from the dead resulting in two Lazarus’ now living. Just one guy.
Re: chuckwurt: It’s not a lazarus with benefits because it used his already-earned ballsaver (LOL) and not a pre-emptive ballsave launch as described for single-ball ‘lazarus with benefits.’ He should get the LOL ball back regardless, so he really only got one extra ball-in-play by way of lazarus.
Having 3 active balls in multiball play instead of 2 active balls in multiball play isn’t a significant beneficial malfunction.
Even in those edge cases I mentioned above?
So if I’m in 3-ball multiball, and a ball gets stuck, I can play my 2-active-ball multiball for as long as I want? And only have to trap up to free the unstuck ball once I eventually drain one of the two active balls?
Heh when I saw this was T2 I thought it was going to be the rarely seen ‘Super JP with a ball trapped on each flipper’ technique~
I used ACTIVE BALLS on purpose. Stuck ball issues are handled by a completely separate section . . . in fact it has it’s OWN SECTION
“If a ball becomes stuck during a multiball mode, the player should attempt to trap the other ball(s) in play and request assistance. A stuck ball during multiball often represents a significant beneficial malfunction, and intentionally taking advantage may result in a penalty.”
Nope . . . as a TD I wouldn’t worry about any of those kind of situations as material.
There isn’t a limit to how many Lazarus you can have in a game in the IFPAPA rules.
That would make my previous question pretty much nonsense. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought the lazarus fell under section 1.6 of the rules (once per game) but apparently it falls under section 3.7 (nature of pinball–play on.)
Well, I guess I stand corrected. I still disagree, but willing to submit to the pinball rules gods.
I thought this was an extreme fringe case, but I guess it happens more often than I expected.
Yeah after reading all these replies I think the stance of going from 2 to 3 ball multiball is not a significant beneficial malfunction or whatever is a good way to go. It is also what my gut was telling me, and that has never steered me wrong haha.