I’m trying to determine what would be acceptable to most players without pissing them off when it comes to setting up a location game. The location would have the majority of its player base being new but it also runs a selfie league and has monthly tournaments.
From some research here is what I determined to be acceptable modifications but Im interested to hear what other people think as i might be wrong, All games are 50 cents a credit.
Tight tilts - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Remove post rubbers - Acceptable in tournaments only (can damage ball which damages game if removed all the time)
Open outlanes - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Replace standard flippers with lightning flippers on games like LoTR & SM - Acceptable in general play and tournaments (im interested in hearing feedback on this one, all shots are still possible with lightning flippers)
Adjusting sensitivity/coil strength - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Adjusting replay/matching - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Pitch - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Ball Saver - On for general play but can be off for tournaments. Some games like TAF & TZ are off and thats fine for general play
Feature Settings (how many shots to start XYZ) - For general play it should be default but can be harder for tournaments
Im sure im forgetting some other items and if so, please add them.
I think the majority of this places players are amateur based and making them to hard will stop people from wanting to drop quarters in them. My advice was on a new game you want to put in like LOTR or SM was set it somewhat normal but conservative and then after a week or 2 and go back and check the average ball and game times. Then start adjusting post or ball saves, etc. Removing post rubbers on location games to me is big NO NO. I would never drop money repeatedly on a location game missing inlane rubbers. That’s just me… Also the lightning flippers might turn me off on pay to play as well.
I think working with the audits information and post adjustments and some settings adjustments you can make the game balanced enough for the player base there. As they grow so do the settings changes… Solid states you might have to increase replays, etc.
I’m just glad you are putting games out there for people to play but don’t run them off thinking pinball is just so hard and not fun. Its a delicate balance for sure. Good luck and I’m sure you’ll get plenty of great opinions here.
I think that setting ball save timers to their maximum is a great way to keep novice players from getting as frustrated, while only minimally extending how long games last for more skilled players.
Use the game audits to check ball times and EB earned before and after the changes. Earnings and ball times should go a long way in helping determine if opening outlanes or lightening flippers or tighter tilts discourage players. In general, I set up games middle of the road on outlanes, never changed flipper bats, and only tightened tilts during tourneys. (Of course tourney settings in software if available, and also no ball save in tourneys, if possible).
I think ball save, tilts, no extra balls and outlanes are the most easily changed, and are standard tourney adjustments for most big and small tourneys. But, these also hurt my earnings the most, if left in that configuration (I kept a close eye on before/after, and gave thought to whether traffic or parties may have skewed the audits beyond settings changes).
p.s. this was a family fun center, so most players were kids/novices
They are two different groups that you are catering for. When a new location player drops a couple coins in games and gets pummelled they may well not be back. So if you lean to tournament settings your coin drop will suffer. I would leave outlanes at normal, be a bit generous on tilt, and set a generous ball save. Ball save is a key one it really buys good will with players and it primarily benefits bad players. I set mine quite long (10 seconds on WOZ). I set my match on the low sides as most people don’t even know what it is.
The best way to see if it is right or not is spend time at the location and talk to people. If you can’t do that easily make friends with the people that work there and get feedback from them. If you hear/see people walking away a minute after dropping in a coin looking unhappy take a very close look at your setup.
Whoa your ideas are too extreme I’d say if you wanna get more casual folks to try and like pinball. Our best operator in this area has super generous ball saves and the machines are generally fairly set up similar to how they come stock. This has been a boon to pinball and if you make it harder for tournament players it’ll turn off these regular folks (whom you’ll earn more from b/c of their lack of skill there’ was a couple playing ghostbusters next to us at selfie finals yesterday who I saw play six games while we were on the same ball (two players played two balls while they played six games) and they were still playing more so that GB was earning way better than our longer games with replays
50 cents a play is too cheap no matter what titles you put out. 75 cents a play, 3/2 is still more than generous.
Obviously every game is different. That said, I always tried to keep my games as stock as possible. The idea is the customer sees a title he or she is familiar with and it mostly plays like they expect it to. Too many changes will send them running.
I always shot for an average game of about 3 minutes. I set up the game close, then checked audits later to see if adjustments are needed. Some games, like BSD or IM, might average less than 3 minutes, while others like POTC or SS will average more than 3 minutes. The large majority of the games I only adjusted pitch and out lane posts.
Games with long ball times, like SM, TSPP and LOTR, don’t make enough money. Don’t route them if possible. If you bastardize them too much to keep ball times down, the players can’t progress. Game isn’t fun. If you leave it close to stock, game times can average 5 minutes or more.
I set max extra balls to 3 (Stern default is 5), and set initials to 10 characters on Stern’s, but otheriwise leave settings alone.
Tilt should allow one good shove (with a warning). Games which are nudged more, like WOF, I leave the tilt a little looser. I put non-natural flipper rubbers on my Ripley’s because it was already modified, but otherwise used natural flipper rubbers and rings on all my games. As regular location player, non-natural rubbers (flippers or otherwise) are a huge turnoff to me.
I’d say that as long as the slings are sensitive, pops active, flippers are strong and the games are cleaned and maintained often, you’ll be able to please just about everyone. [quote=“genex, post:8, topic:2040”]
Whoa your ideas are too extreme
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Totally agree. Pulling posts and leaving out lane rubbers off is taking it way to far for location games. I would leave the outlane post in the center position and remove the rubber if you want to make it harder during tournaments. The tilts shouldn’t be to extreme but, certainly not loose either. I think being able to get away with one pretty big move is what I’d shoot for. Most novice players don’t really nudge and move games anyway. Good luck on your route!
I’d personally avoid using lightning flippers on games that aren’t supposed to have them. Most players will probably not realize that they’re installed, but will notice that your game “flips weird” compared to any other instance of the title that they’re familiar with.
I’d do 75 cents for games that play easy or long if they are newer ones.
Tight tilts - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Go with factory to start; let the beginners nudge freely.
Remove post rubbers - Acceptable in tournaments only (can damage ball which damages game if removed all the time)
Agreed
Open outlanes - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Depends on the game; set closed on “hard” games, open on “easy,” normal on others.
Replace standard flippers with lightning flippers on games like LoTR & SM - Acceptable in general play and tournaments (im interested in hearing feedback on this one, all shots are still possible with lightning flippers)
Would never do this outside a serious tournament, e.g. not for your selfie league, either. For your own practicing, sure, but not on location.
Adjusting sensitivity/coil strength - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
To a point; make sure the flippers can make all the shots without having to be 100% perfect, otherwise people will get really annoyed and bail.
Adjusting replay/matching - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Fine, and expected.
Pitch - Acceptable in general play and tournaments
Same comment re ability to make all the shots.
Ball Saver - On for general play but can be off for tournaments. Some games like TAF & TZ are off and thats fine for general play
Fine.
Feature Settings (how many shots to start XYZ) - For general play it should be default but can be harder for tournaments
Fine. I’d even suggest setting this to easy for some features for a while after you bring in a new game to let people get the hang of it. Once they do, then step it back up to normal.
In general, if things are too easy, you’re better off just charging more or incrementally tightening up the game. The one thing not to do is set things too hard so that people get frustrated. Most people can tolerate paying an extra quarter far more than they can tolerate having consistently short, frustrating games.
Focus on your game being a location game - not a tournament machine.
If you think people are going to be too good on it… simply limit the # of extra balls and turn off replays. Everything else is about controlling how long a game plays. If you aren’t worried about a game being hogged, don’t worry about that for location play. If its about keeping tournaments moving, then its about the game and how long it could play if not setup appropriately.
I’d set your game up first and foremost for the people actually paying for it and keeping that player base healthy. Tournaments alone aren’t going to pay your bills or make the location happy with coindrop.
Setup the game… monitor people playing or your audits and adjust. What do you gain from having a game so hard to punishes your walk-up crowd?
My location is exactly like yours: newish player base, but lots of leagues, tournaments, and selfies.
I aim for 50-60 second average ball times. Adjust from there.
Some games are factory, some are set up easier (GB, WOF, and IM are as easy as I can possibly make them).
I don’t change any settings for tournament play except to turn off extra balls. (And I remove the inlane/outlane divider rubbers in IJ4…that game plays long when better players are on it).
My tilts are as loose as they can go so that the top of the tilt bob still makes contact with the ring. (Though they do have rubber feet, so you can’t slide at all).
90s games are 50 cents, newer are 75 cents. 3/$2. I wish it was all higher but the competition is set at 50 cents across the board.
Edit: I do have games set on “tournament mode” at all times. This de-randomizes random awards. Previously, I would turn it on for tourneys and back on afterwards, but now I leave it on all the time. Occasionally people will ask why they “always get X award”.
If you think people are going to be too good on it… simply limit the # of extra balls and turn off replays.
Better to make the replay score high (and fixed) rather than turn off replays. If I walk into a location where some games award replays and some don’t, I’m playing the games that give replays. If none of the games award replays, I’m probably not stepping foot in the place.
The first goal of even a casual player is to win a replay. If it’s really hard, yet there, that’s better than turning them off completely. Also, it’s okay to reset high scores every 2K plays (default on Stern), but never reset a GC score. Those are too hard to come by.
I don’t think the first goal of a casual player is to win a replay necessarily as they may not know what that is, but i have seen folks go crazy when they get their initials in. I think resetting scores even sooner than 2000 plays is fine too if it gives people more chances to put up initials. One guy who only plays on location at one spot will play every game until he gets up initials, then move to the next. If they get reset - he goes back to work (or if we knock him off
Genex has an excellent point re: initials. The Hobbit code has “Today’s high scores” and I bet it helps earnings. Robotron and Defender had this - and even the top players came back every day to make sure they got to enter initials that day. Strange, but true, (and maybe not that surprising) the high score entry is a major factor in repeat play.
I believe it is unnecessary to cater to the tournament player for general location play. It’s not worth alienating the casual players by making your games more “difficult”.
Everyone makes good points here, but what about Modern? It is my understanding that those games are set brutal and they rely on casual play as much as anything to stay in business. If I am wrong let me know and I will take down my post.
there’ was a couple playing ghostbusters next to us at selfie finals yesterday who I saw play six games while we were on the same ball (two players played two balls while they played six games) and they were still playing more so that GB was earning way better than our longer games with replays 