Zach and I have played a few games this afternoon. Overall, it’s better, we’re really liking the extra features… but have noticed a couple of things that could use a but of tweaking…
Upper playfield multiplier doesn’t multiply Targaryen castle turnaround collects. Not sure about other houses, though I did see a Tyrell 450 million collect using the upper playfield to complete it. Makes me wonder if a large payoff is available up here with the multipliers!
I believe Lannister is still too valuable. Zach just got a 10 billion Hand of the King, having completed Targaryen, Lannister, Greyjoy, and Tyrell. He had accumulated about 10k in gold before starting it (he used the other multiballs to do nothing but collect more gold). Just before starting HoTK he bought 2x. He hit the center ramp to start HoTK and bought 3x. He made various shots, eventually getting 4x and then 5x by mistake. He continued at 5x until it timed out, then bought 2x followed by 3x again. Continuing to make HoTK shots he bought 4x as the 3x was timing out. He finished and got the hurryup lit with 4x still running. The hurryup was in the neighborhood of 1.5 billion, he bought the 5x and collected it at a bit over 7 billion.
As we’ve mentioned upthread, I’d like to see you only be able to buy one multiplier at a time. You can’t buy another one until the current multiplier has timed out, or maybe have added another multiplier using the battering ram first. If you want 5x, you need to slog through (not as many!) risky battering ram shots to lite 4x first. Or you can basically always be at 2x in valuable modes and just re-enable it when it times out as long as you have gold to do so.
We’re going to use this in league tonight. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Thanks for listening!
Kevin
P.S. Do you have a place I could upload a short video I took of Zach playing Targaryen forever on the upper playfield, I think you might want to address it.
Going to be streaming some Beta code on a Pro around 7:30pm Pacific tonight! Tune in at https://www.twitch.tv/goblin_juggler I’ll try to post when we are live.
This seems like the key exploit. There’s no way that actually playing those multiballs will be as valuable.
Ideas (not all together, these are individual ideas):
Limit Lannister multiplier buys to one per ball.
Shorten the timeout decay when a multiplier is bought via the action button instead of earned via banging on the battering ram.
Spend ALL your gold when you buy a multiplier. You get whatever level you’ve qualified (so straight to 3x, 5x, whatever) but you are left with no gold, making it probably impossible to extend the timer by just buying another one.
Time to bring back an idea from an infamous old-school Dota hero - The Gambler. The more gold you have, the higher % chance you have of losing it all and getting nothing.
Gambler showed up in a later 5.X series version of DotA, and possessed some of the most overpowered abilities any DotA hero had ever seen. Gambler got All In at Level 6, which allowed him to deal damage based on his current gold. The more gold he had, the more damage he could potentially deal. However, the attack had a higher chance of whiffing the more damage it would deal, and if you whiffed, you lost all your money. Then again, the attack could deal up to 1,500 damage at level one, guaranteeing a kill that early in the game, so it was almost always worth the risk.
If this is the route you take, I would suggest making it where competition mode sets it at minimum(4 per/game). Similar to the way multipliers in Star Wars were cut back from 20x to 10x in comp mode.
This is an interesting idea, but really obscure. It requires you to know what level setting it is on, know what that number translates to, and then potentially keep track in your head during the game. I’m having a hard time thinking of an equivalent rule in any other game where you can use a thing that many times, across many balls and then run out of it. Limited use is great in some ways that it is executed, like tghe once per ball Martell add-a-ball. On the other side is tilts per game in JJP games. Even though it is a very small number, this has proven to be extremely difficult (and frustrating) for me to keep track of (although it’s awesome that JJP POTC keeps track of it visually in the right outlane).
Limiting total uses isn’t going to change the strategy: save up all your multipliers and blow them all on the biggest scoring opportunity you have late in the game (which is going to be HOTK or IT).
Edit: thought of an example: VIP passes in AC/DC. Those are in between…they kind of work, but are a little different because they are earned through skillful play. I imagine most people are blowing them all on a last ditch add a ball revive at the end of multiball. But keeping track of 10 would be tough. I guess you put it in the menu and you could always look it up.
FYI - I suspect we may be barking up the wrong tree a bit. Zach just got 25 billion during league tonight playing Targaryen, including a 10 billion hurryup collect during HoTK. Clearly, Lannister makes it easier but it’s possible with other houses too… I also suspect it was always possible to achieve this, but no one ever realized it (or if they did, they kept it quiet!)…
Another idea: have the 2x purchase be as it is, but for every multiplier beyond that, you must hit the ram once to “unlock” the button.
So, 2x (either way), ram once, button for 3x, ram once, button for 4x, ram once, button for 5x. This way you still skillfully need to take some risk to unlock the bigger payoffs. And if your plan was to dump them all on a single HOTK hurryup, you have to plan that ahead more deliberately.
For Lannister nerf, simply limit the supply: what about doing away with the pict-o-pops Gold award? Put a reasonable limit on gold supply, and if someone wants more gold, they have to hit the stand ups of death. You could still use your Gold for multipliers at your discretion, but good luck accumulating frequent/sustained 4- 5x without the 250 coming from safe pops feeds during MB.
Please don’t adjust rules that can be fun just so a choice few top level players in the world can’t blow up the game without maybe only applying those changes to competition mode. I’m just afraid that if things are nerfed to much it takes some of the fun away from the non-top 100 in the world players. I agree and understand with level setting house, just want to make sure we don’t go past the point of fun for the normal player.
If we still need to change Lannister. Can you just limit it’s number of uses per ball. All the other houses powers can only be used once per ball so maybe the same should be true for Lannister. In that case, the player gets the PF X that they have qualified and have enough gold for. If that is 3x then it goes straight to 3x. If they have enough gold and ability to get to 5x then it would be 5x. To me, the only exploit for this house is being able to use it over and over again during the ball. Essentially making your PFx last forever if you have enough gold and wait till it’s about to time out to buy the next one.
P.S. for everyone with a prem/LE - Don’t forget to active your orbits again after installing the new code versions so your loops will work again
1 - I completely agree. I plan to add adjustments so TDs can tighten down the game as they see fit.
2 - I really like the idea of X per game. Now that you are getting a little less gold than 1.36 and the multipliers cost more.
Crazy idea…why not force players to buy Lannister multipliers one at a time from the Mystery store? Anytime you want one, you’d have to light Mystery, and then buy it. You’d already be locked out of this during MB, which is probably a good thing.
Might be a little harsh (so you could make them less expensive then), but it would make more sense within the context of the rest of the game rules.
How about you can cash for multipliers once per ball? The playfield X you get is the max you can afford with the gold you have on hand at the time of cashing.
The risk/reward/meta would have a nice dance around wanting to cash each ball, but do you cash low or maybe high, or save for a higher cash in on another ball.
