And remember too you won’t get to past 3x until you have collected two swords.
No, don’t be silly. I’m not going to brutalize my game for a local tournament because the Lannister strategy is overpowering.
I wasn’t suggesting exactly that flailing is a good strategy. Pretend instead that I suggested skillfully teaching multiball, unintentionally miss all your shots and accidentally collect a lot of gold.
I just think it’s an excellent ability. Too good.
What are you going to pick in a tournament, and how will you feel when you opponent picks Lannister? Regardless of how poorly they shoot, they’re always a few shots away from a billion points.
How much gold does it take (roughly) to buy your way to 5x? I make 7ish buys during my last HoTK.
Ahhh, this I forgot. But I still think it’s too powerful. What are you choosing against Lannister?
Ask me in 6 months. Haha
One thought too. Maybe start all games at limited to 2x playfield?
Make those swords worthwhile!
Thanks for replying @Dwight!
First, let me say that I love all the new ideas in this code. It is awesome that you were able to put all this cool new stuff into the game! The two main things in my opinion were: make houses besides Martell, Tyrell, and Greyjoy a viable option at the start, and integrate the upper playfield more. Mission achieved!
I should put more games on the new code before getting too out of hand with suggestions, but I’ll just say a few things here quickly first:
I own a Pro, and almost never play Premiums/LEs. So while I wasn’t that familiar with the upper playfield, I have mostly seen people ignore it on the old code. From the few anecdotes I’ve seen so far, the new code is potentally broken on the Premium.
The 32b screenshot posted above was achieved by Zmac. He’s a very young, but excellent player and his family owns an arcade. He gets to play. A lot. His previous high score, across probably hundreds of games, was 19b. On his 4th game on the new code, he got 32b. I’d bet we will see him get 100b soon enough. He mentioned that modes can be completely completed on the upper PF. So, yeah, this anecdote comes from a top level player that you haven’t heard of (he’s been to Run to the Hills twice). He’s also got some Cayle in him…looking for grindy ways to exploit games.
I saw on Pinside that a guy whose previous lifetime high score was 500m. This I think is more representative of a player of normal skill level. He already has a 2.5b score on the Premium.
But these massive increases are in just the first few tries on the new code. Again, those are on Premiums, which now let you complete modes entirely without risk on the upper playfield (or so I’m told).
Now to the new mode abilities…
Both of the above examples are also using Lannister. I have no problem with scores inflating with the new code, but seeing people 2-5x their all time highest scores within the first few plays is worrying.
As I said, I’ve only played three games (one Stark, two Lannister) on the new code (one was a top 10 all time score for me, out of hundreds of games), but I’m relatively confident that the other houses aren’t going to present scoring opportunities of 2-5x in just the first few tries. (Although Baratheon could give you essentially 3 extra balls…so that would/should double your score).
Before people got their hands on the code, everyone I talked to was on the Lannister bandwagon, and so far they seem to be right. Massive multiplier potential always scares me in any game, and even though it was there before in GOT, you had to work for it…with multiple repeated hits to the ram (which has an unsafe return in a game in which 5 of the 7 main shots are safe returns) just to get to 2x.
(Yes, you have to hit lots of dangerous gold targets to increase your PFx, but you’re doing that already, and accidentally, and for free during MB/ball saver times. Previously, you’d spend a full game’s worth of gold on something worth 10m-60m points. With that, you can buy 4x PF for 20 seconds. With 4x running, a single shot in Tyrell, with no combo multiplier, would net you 45m…but that’s just one shot. Ever single SJP is worth 60m more at that level. A finishing shot on Stark or Martell could be worth 400m-1.2m more. It’s POWERFUL. No one in their right mind would hit the battering ram 20 times before finishing Martell or Stark, previously.)
I think there are lots of other ways you could keep the multipler rule in effect, but lessen it (no gold collected during MB, cap how high it goes, force a PFx timeout before allowing another buy…to prevent back to back to back to back purchases (Zmac’s idea), etc).
I don’t think a 20% increase in cost is enough…though theoretically there is some threshold at which it would balance out. However, that would create more problems. Say for example that PFx was twice as expensive as it is currently. This turns Lannister into even more of a long play for exponential scoring right at the end of a long well played game. (Maybe a good Grand Champ / Herb strategy: I need 10-20b, so I’m going to play a long game or focus on gold and then pull the trigger on 5x all at once during HOTK or Iron Throne). Maybe that’s fine for it to be a long play, but it becomes much more situational (and in direct tournament play, you probably wouldn’t know that you’d need 10b at the time you were choosing your house).
Love all the new stuff and it’s really cool to have new life breathed into a game that was already still loved and enjoyed after years of play!
TL;DR People are already crushing their all time highs exploiting the upper playfield. Lannister is too good. The end.
Yeah so far I agree that Lannister is a bit overpowered. Maybe the increased purchase rates help that you outlined @Dwight, but also reducing the bumped up gold earning ability in tandem might help by reducing that slightly? It’s still early though so we should let folks play more on it at various skill levels.
Or this could be a handicapping strategy that only players ranked lower than you can pick Lannister
I think you could fix this issue by resetting Gold at end of ball. Letting it build up throughout the game almost guarantees high gold count by 3rd ball. If it reset after each ball, getting massive Gold would require a massive ball, which should be rewarded.
I found a small bug today. I had 2x running and used a Lannister button to go to 3x shortly before going into mystery select. I chose to buy 2x video mode. I completed the video mode. The correct amount of points were awarded(20m x 2 x 3 = 120M) BUT the display showed 20m x 2 x 2 and then displayed 120M. So the correct points were awarded, but the display didn’t recognize the additional playfield x that was achieved with the Lannister button.
Gold isn’t coming from the stand-up targets. When I played my game on it I noticed that I was getting 750g from the pops every other award, so during multiball I intentionally drained and fed the pops and had 7000g after my first blackwater.
I think @Steveo doesn’t want to brag, but my new anecdote is that he just got 86b on his very first game on the new code. Over 4x his previous high. Yes, he’s one of the top players in the world, but that’s quite the jump. It was Lannister.
Glad the SJP bug got fixed! I found myself reflexively still buying light SJP even after I had already discovered that it was fixed.
ha ha i did that too and my buddy was like “why’d you do that?” and so I purposefully drained without getting to the super in BW and then hit it to see if there might be a new bug but alas just got the one SJP and that was it…
Glad you tried that. It actually occurred to me to try, but I didn’t want to squander any of my limited time on the machine last night.
TL;DR I like the game and additions. Fantastic job. Please consider adding two settings: Buy Multiplier (Always, Once per timeout, Never) and Upper Playfield Complete Modes (On, Once per Ball, Off). This can preserve current behavior but allow options for competitive play. Oh, and thanks for the Allow Sword Lock setting!
Warning! Wall of Text!
First, thank you for updating Game of Thrones. Coming from a computer programming background myself, I can appreciate the time, energy, and creativity it takes to put something like this together.
Our family owns Blizzard Mountain Pinball in Conifer, Colorado. We have 38 pinball games here including many recent Sterns. Game of Thrones is typically in the top 10. For myself, I have loved Game of Thrones since it came out (and I don’t even follow the show!). I like that you can use different strategies with the different houses and have a different game experience depending on your mood.
I haven’t played the new code very much, but I observed Zach (or Z-Mac, he’s my son) play the 32 billion point game. He basically bought the 5x multiplier and got a 10 billion Hand of the King. He then bought the 5x multiplier again and got a 19 billion Iron Throne. 90% of this huge score was from those modes where he saved up his money and bought the multipliers. He completed most of the modes using the upper playfield, so the ball wasn’t ever really in danger.
Zach is a very skilled player and actively looks for exploits in games. He actually found one that’s still present - you can play the third Targaryen mode forever on the upper playfield by timing out the last shot which relights the three shots again, then hitting the corner castle twice. Time out again, rinse, repeat until you have the score you want! Something you might want to look at on the Premium/LE.
Our thought for Lannister and upper playfield was to add a couple of settings to the game options (if this sounds silly or is counter to your vision, I totally understand):
Buy Multiplier: (1) Always Allow, (2) Only once per multiplier timeout, (3) never. Option 1 is the way it is now, option 2 would only allow you to buy it once until the multiplier timer runs out, and option 3 never allows you to buy it.
I just thought of another option - make the button multiplier a mystery award you have to earn/buy first before you can hit it, and you can only have one in the ‘bank’. Hitting the button with one in the bank starts or adds 1x to the playfield multiplier. Can only be used once because you can only bank one. Allow more time for the multiplier to run when activated using the button…
Upper Playfield Complete Modes: On/Once per ball/Off. I really like the upper playfield completing the modes in casual play, I think it adds a lot to the game and makes things more accessible for the casual/intermediate player. For tournament or competitive play I think it can make game time way too long…I don’t want to sit through four players all making it through Iron Throne…
I would default the settings to today’s behavior since it really is fun to be able to blow up the game that way, and I think it’s ideal for casual/location play. I’d just like options to keep it under control for competitive play.
Thanks for reading,
P.S. Thanks for adding setting #42 - Allow Sword Lock. I couldn’t find this option before in tournament play and the sword lock always messes up during Stark mode and releases multiple balls into play incorrectly.
Unless it changed and I missed it. The only two houses you can complete with the upper play field are Greyjoy and Tyrell. The rest just add time/points to it. It has been like that since before this update.
That comment came from my interpretation of a message from Z-mac that said “you can now complete every mode up top, so lighting them is the bigger issue.”
So yes, I believe this is new. In the old code Z-mac would also play Targ 3 by shooting upper playfield loops exclusively. Apparently it worked for Targ 3 only in the old code. (Then, as Kevin mentioned above, he started timing things out up there…which sounds like a bit too much wood chopping for my taste.)
I played a few games with Lannister last night. I may have made an error in what I saw, but on one game I was able to advance to 3x before collecting my sword for my first mode completion, and another game I had plenty of gold and 2 swords but it wouldn’t advance past 2x. I’m not sure of exactly where I was in the game other than taking note of those details. Will keep an eye on it to see if I see anything odd like that again (Pro model). I also noticed that I had tons of gold - over 5k each time I used instant info to check. I was pretty much constantly able to purchase multipliers during all my modes and multiballs. Shortly after finishing blackwater at 4x (all purchased), I checked again and was over 5k gold. I was getting tons of gold… it was a terrible blackwater so maybe I was just hitting standups!
You can advance to 3x without any swords. Need to collect two to unlock 4x and 5x.
If you have enough gold to advance to the next multiplier the button will be red. If not, or you haven’t unlocked the next multiplier via swords, it will be unlit.
I hope that helps.