Feedback on Pin Masters?

I’m curious to hear how it went – it still seemed pretty grueling! Multi-day pingolf seems like it could be fun. What would people say to a similar event with a mid-way A/B cut and a reset for those mired in the bottom half?

Thanks to Karl and IEpinball for bringing the cameras and the streaming equipment, to IFPA for running the event, and to the PHOF for hosting, and congratulations to Robert Gagno on big play and big wins all week.


I don’t want to kill myself … And I did 5 years ago after it was over, so big improvement! :smile:


Some notes we’ve definitely made so far:

  1. adding a practice session for all non-Nationals participants prior to the start of Pin-Masters

  2. working with MHS on a “Kevin nickel” rule with respect for how long you wait for someone who goes missing in the middle of a game :smile:

  3. using rubber feet on the games to minimize the Tim Arnold meltdowns when the sound of games sliding on concrete threatened to shut down the tournament

  4. possible cap at 72 players instead of 108 going forward. The idea of a third tee time would probably have pushed us (and especially Tim) over the edge of sanity.

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I would strongly suggest that the amount of wait-time be a variable for the TD. Something like PInburgh or Pin-masters is much more sensitive to people going missing or just being slow (“waiting for tilt bob” if it needs it or not) than finals rounds usually are.

Other scenes I’m involved in have 10 minutes delay at the start of a match and lenient wandering-off rules for small local events up to 0 minutes delay at the start of a match and checked-in with a tournament official wandering-off rules mid-match (for toilet breaks or whatever).

Look forward to the Tim Arnold meltdown links!

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Having played in the Kevin Nickel group I’m all in favor of coming up with such a rule. It’s a serious buzz kill to have to go looking and calling for someone 9x. Especially when they complain every time you do once they appear.

I’m pretty over it.

I was streaming it on our TV when Tim went on his meltdown, with my 5 year old son watching. It was a bit awkward. Someone get that man a Snickers.


When it came to Kevin Nickel couldn’t the Tournament Director just tell him you have X amount of time to show-up when its your time to play or your ball will be plunged by a group member? X amount of plunges could results in disqualification or what not. It seems like Josh is going to follow-up with MHS but I can’t really think of another solution.

I didn’t get to listen to a lot of the broadcast but it seemed like the scoring goals were set by averaging scores in the National Championship. We saw how this created an inflated score for TronLE since it didn’t seem like a tilt bob was even attached on Thursday.

To me it seemed grueling because of the length of time it took to compete. I think the two items above hit on those items.

Does anyone have the timestamp to Tim’s meltdown? I missed it. thanks

There’s already some language in the PAPA/IFPA ruleset:

Any player who is absent when he or she has a ball to play, whether in qualifying or final rounds, will be given a maximum of three minutes to return. After that time, a tournament official will plunge the player’s remaining ball(s) in play, until such time as the player returns. Any player who has an emergency should notify a tournament official, so that accommodations may be made.

Awesome, I just had the rules pulled up but I was looking at something for lock stealing ref: Elvira.

Yea, I guess if that was enforced the problem would of been solved. :wink:

My original plan was to look up default replay levels for the various games and go with that. With Nationals we were able to analyze a bunch of data to see what kind of scores players were reaching, knowing that we wanted TOUGH par scores.

The one thing I don’t particularly like about typical pin-golf tournaments is that it’s more about house ball management with really low par scores. The intent of Pin-Masters has always been to make players play “good games”, with a bonus for playing a good game in fewer balls. The 6-10 scoring based on how close you got really spread out the ‘bad game’ scores compared to simply giving everyone a 6. It was also far better compared to making players play out all 10 balls (which we did last time).

The plumb bob on Tron was attached, but had slid down the rod throughout the day. The target score was not set because the game was set to no tilt, let me be clear about that. Too many groups had played it before we realized it had slid down under the ring that we had to leave it for the rest of round 1. This was fixed for rounds 2 & 3, and the target score was reduced simply because of how big the backlog was for Tron compared to the other 8 holes.

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Bah . . . this is on me for fucking it up.

I had assumed it was 15 minutes, which I believe is for ‘checking in’, so I was putting Kevin on the 15 minute clock for every ball when he went missing. Typically he showed up in the 7-9 minute range, making it frustrating for everyone. Being able to plunge him after 3 minutes would have been an honor and pleasure for myself personally :smile:

4 Likes Around the 27:05 mark

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So was the end of ball movement on the Metallica game at the 27 min mark the infraction? IMO, it didn’t seem that violent. Or was there something else not visible on camera?

Hitting the glass is grounds for ejection in any tournament I’ve ever played in

Really? I find it bizarre that it’s so frowned upon. All it is, is noise. You are more likely to damage a machine by moving it through nudging and sliding. Hitting the glass, literally, does nothing to the machine. It’s all psychology. I should have a conversation with that Dave Stewart guy, he seems to be into that.

Having seen glass shatter on games at least 3 times, I have to disagree here. Even if there were no potential for damage, hitting the glass with your fist is not a wonderful gesture. At the least, it discourages people against bringing their games for use in events.

If I see this as a tournament director, it’s a warning with the potential for ejection.


I guess I’m just weak then. What about a half-ass glass punch? You know, the kind where you want to look bad-ass, but pull your punch enough to not hurt your hand, but it’s hard enough for everyone to hear? Is there an equilibrium where I can score macho points and not get booted? Ghost punching does NOT count. I kid, of course.

Yeah, warning and ejection with repeats if what TDs around here do. It’s the most-hated action by operators/game owners since they can’t protect against it like they can by tightening the tilt.

And it can be really loud which is not a happy experience for new players standing close by.

Macho points can be scored with a fist pump:


Usually the glass only shatters if it is plate, which I put on the operator personally. I have never seen tempered shatter from a fit slam.

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