Dialed In! Camera - Disabling It as a Player?

[Kholdstaer]

@SunsetShimmer

I just wanted to say that the phrase “Why Not Trust Us?” for the camera cover feels somewhat bitter and resentful.

I recognize what I’m about to say is tangential to the original topic, but it seems like a good opportunity to put some context back in place. Dialed In is a game about a company that built a phone that can level the city. The company is Dialed In Electronics, or DIE for short. Thats clearly not a coincidence. If anything, I feel like the quote on the magnet is way more tongue-in-cheek, almost approvingly so. Given the context of the game, to me, the implication is ‘yea, obviously don’t trust DIE, they ruined everything, but of course they are going to act like they are perfectly trustworthy because thats what cartoony malicious corporations do’.

That said, if you have a particular sensitivity to having your picture taken (I don’t, for the record), I can easily see where that context goes right out the window. I would imagine that facet of the conversation didn’t come up at the design meeting, and JJP made a misstep, not realizing the phrase would come off as borderline ridiculing those who have a problem with pictures.

Back on topic, as a design engineer myself, I fully support not giving each and every player the option to change every little detail of the game. Some of the stories I could tell definitely prove the ‘nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool’ saying true. But it seems weird to me that taking a picture of someone without any indication beforehand is the default. I feel like it should be kind of like the MB on Aerosmith. The game could say 'Hey, you just activated selfie mode. Double flip to take pictures. Time out a three second timer to not take pictures". Same at the end of entering your initials. Sure, not everyone would take the time to read the message and understand it, but if it’s opt-in, it becomes the fault of the player if they had pictures taken against their will. It’s simple, doesn’t require a lot of previous knowledge of the game, like the POTC or FG language change (I never knew it was a thing until this thread, despite having played both), and errs on the side of caution (Took too long to interpret the message? It just timed out and nothing happens).

Personally, I enjoy the selfies taken, because its fun to see my face when I’m completely not paying attention to the fact my picture is being taken. It’s fun for me to sit back and watch my friend’s faces too. I don’t actually know anyone personally who has a problem with it. And it fits on a machine that pokes fun at emojis and all the other things about ‘phone culture’ that most people find over-the-top (if only it had a ‘instagram your meal’ mode…). I’m glad its a feature, and I’ll absolutely keep it if/when I get my own table. But to have it on as a manufacturer setting seems like a weird choice, given all of the negative press about privacy in this country alone, let alone all the other countries mentioned in previous posts.

[phishrace]

@John_I

It’s just bad form to be taking pictures of people and not giving them a choice of having them displayed in public.

Most every amusement park with a roller coaster does this every day. And it’s been going on decades. I’m sure someone challenged it along the way.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of us would very much like to have our mug attached to a high score on a Pat Lawlor game like DI. Was it here or somewhere else that mentioned folks at Free Gold Watch are posing for high score pics? The camera may be adding to earnings. The high score with the gooffiest pic wins.

Arcades and amusement parks go hand in hand. All bets are off once you go through the front door as far as getting your pic taken and/ or shown in public. Remember this guy?

https://i.imgur.com/tRoYpxO.jpg

[John_I]

@phishrace

Most every amusement park with a roller coaster does this every day. And it’s been going on decades. I’m sure someone challenged it along the way.

Haha yeah, there are tons of great pictures that I’m sure the subjects would rather not be out there on the Internet. I’m not saying it’s illegal or that it should be illegal; just in bad form not to respect people’s right to privacy especially in this time of identity theft and #deletefacebook. To me being able to select some cool avatar to play as would only add to the game and a better idea all around than disabling the camera for some players and leaving the screen blank in the selfie mode.

[ErinK]

I’ve seen several players where the camera preferentially cropped the photo to the cartoon face on their t-shirts instead of their actual faces. Until there’s an opt out you could try that?

[Shep]

@jdelz

Given the opportunity, I’ll choose to go first on Family Guy just to select Spanish mode.

I got accused of cheating at PAPA many years ago for picking Spanish on FG during qualifying.

I told the guy it doesn’t convert scoring to Pesos, it’s all good. He ratted me out to the front desk

[juanlargo]

Oh my god, thank you for starting this thread. I’m really not big on having my picture taken, especially when I don’t have a say in the matter.

Thing is, I could let it slide if I was at least getting a heads up that it’s about to happen, but the game doesn’t work that way. Instead, it deliberately catches you off guard. In fact, when I duck out of frame to avoid a high score snapshot, the software just uses a (wildly unflattering) selfie that was taken while I was playing instead.

This game absolutely rules, but wow is this feature aggressive.

TBH, it kind of blows my mind that nobody even brought up the idea that people might not want this.

[SunsetShimmer]

@Kholdstaer

I recognize what I’m about to say is tangential to the original topic, but it seems like a good opportunity to put some context back in place. Dialed In is a game about a company that built a phone that can level the city. The company is Dialed In Electronics, or DIE for short. Thats clearly not a coincidence. If anything, I feel like the quote on the magnet is way more tongue-in-cheek, almost approvingly so. Given the context of the game, to me, the implication is ‘yea, obviously don’t trust DIE, they ruined everything, but of course they are going to act like they are perfectly trustworthy because thats what cartoony malicious corporations do’.

That said, if you have a particular sensitivity to having your picture taken (I don’t, for the record), I can easily see where that context goes right out the window. I would imagine that facet of the conversation didn’t come up at the design meeting, and JJP made a misstep, not realizing the phrase would come off as borderline ridiculing those who have a problem with pictures.

I see. I didn’t know that context, and you can’t assume everybody who walks up to the machine will know it. Heck, I think you should assume someone who will play the machine has no context or prior knowledge of the game’s premise or story.

It still feels incredibly tactless though.

@phishrace

@John_I

It’s just bad form to be taking pictures of people and not giving them a choice of having them displayed in public.

Most every amusement park with a roller coaster does this every day. And it’s been going on decades. I’m sure someone challenged it along the way.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of us would very much like to have our mug attached to a high score on a Pat Lawlor game like DI. Was it here or somewhere else that mentioned folks at Free Gold Watch are posing for high score pics? The camera may be adding to earnings. The high score with the gooffiest pic wins.

On the other hand, amusement parks DO have a disclaimer, either at the entrance to the park or the entrance to the ride, that your picture may be taken and your likeness might appear in photos. Rides that take your picture, like Splash Mountain, have warnings beforehand too. Amusement parks, especially big theme parks like the Disneylands and Universal Studios, bring in tourists from all over the world, a sizable amount of whom come from countries where taking pictures of people is not okay unless they each give their individual permission. They’re going to hasve to be extra cautious in that aspect so they don’t get in trouble or lose tourism from those countries.

Something else I should point out is that I have been in some fandoms (and I still am, for some of them) in which most of its fans do NOT like to have attention drawn towards themselves.

@juanlargo

Oh my god, thank you for starting this thread. I’m really not big on having my picture taken, especially when I don’t have a say in the matter.

Thing is, I could let it slide if I was at least getting a heads up that it’s about to happen, but the game doesn’t work that way. Instead, it deliberately catches you off guard. In fact, when I duck out of frame to avoid a high score snapshot, the software just uses a (wildly unflattering) selfie that was taken while I was playing instead.

This game absolutely rules, but wow is this feature aggressive.

TBH, it kind of blows my mind that nobody even brought up the idea that people might not want this.

A key thing, I’d say, is that extroverts tend to be drawn towards each other while introverts tend to be repelled as such. (Typically, they’ll form their own small, tightly-knit groups elsewhere, often online.) One result is that there are some workplaces that are populated nearly entirely by extroverts and some other workplaces that are full of introverts, and likewise for a business’s customers and/or consumers. Similarly, extroverts are most likely to befriend other extroverts, and introverts are most likely to befriend other introverts. You rarely get both types in the same social circle, as the two types of thinking clash very often.

If a workplace is very extrovert-oriented, then I can see why the idea that some people don’t like to have photos taken of them either never came up or was not taken seriously, because there would be very few such examples in that workplace itself. Bars and arcades are also pretty extrovert-oriented businesses (well, in the west, at least). Overall, working in an environment and being in businesses full of other extroverts (and introverts who can successfully masquerade as such) create the impression that the camera-shy, or at least people who don’t like attention, are a rare bunch. This was an impression an extroverted roommate of mine had at university, that quiet people who keep to themselves are rare, until after a bunch of deliberate searching for more people like me and the discovery that they are indeed quite common. They’re just hard to notice unless you’re a fellow introvert.

Lastly, something I’ve noticed my entire life is that extroverts have a LOT of problems understanding introverts. I’ve never been sure why, just that it’s a pattern I’ve seen.

[COW]

@SunsetShimmer

Similarly, extroverts are most likely to befriend other extroverts, and introverts are most likely to befriend other introverts. You rarely get both types in the same social circle, as the two types of thinking clash very often.

I think the competitive pinball scene (and it sounds like gaming in general too) might be one of the rare cultures where these desperate personalities coexist. It’s one of the things I love about competitive pinball; there’s a mishmash of personalities, socioeconomic backgrounds, and who knows what else.

Introverts and extroverts are thrown together repeatedly and, for the most part, manage to make it work.

We’ve run into an odd situation with Dialed In (that,otherwise,I think is a great game all-around) that is causing some distress to some of us in a way that, I don’t think, was anticipated. This is also one of the things I love about Tilt Forums; we’ve managed to have a very civil conversation about it with, I hope, introverts and extroverts able to chime in.

[keefer]

Introvert/extrovert must definitely be a spectrum, because believe it or not I’m a pretty classic introvert too. However, I’m extremely comfortable around pinball, obviously, so I don’t tend to be as quiet as I typically would be, which is good, because I do need to have some ability to function in public due to my position.

But, however introverted I am, I’ve never been one to care about having my picture taken in any context, pinball or otherwise.

[gammagoat]

@keefer

But, however introverted I am, I’ve never been one to care about having my picture taken in any context, pinball or otherwise.

Says Alan Tudyk

[gdd]

[phishrace]

@SunsetShimmer

On the other hand, amusement parks DO have a disclaimer, either at the entrance to the park or the entrance to the ride, that your picture may be taken and your likeness might appear in photos. Rides that take your picture, like Splash Mountain, have warnings beforehand too

Do they? I don’t remember seeing them years ago when they first came out and I can’t find one doing a GIS. I see Disneyland has proposition 65 warning signs (turns out Disneyland causes cancer), and Splash Mountain has a big warning sign, but nothing about getting photographed. Disneyland has a long list of rules on their website about park visitors using their cameras in the park (can’t stick the camera out the window on the monorail), but no disclaimer about guests being photographed. Used lots of different search terms and tried different parks with no luck. Perhaps the disclaimer is on the back of the ticket, or in small print on the website where you purchase and print tickets?

In the old days (stop me if you’ve heard this before), there was room for everyone at the arcade. The jocks, nerds, stoners and even the loners (introverts) were all there. The only difference between the loners and the rest of the crowd was they usually played the same game and it was usually a video game. You saw them there regularly on the same game, but never talked. It was neutral ground. The rest of us stuck to our own safe cliques.

[cayle]

Thread solved.

[SunsetShimmer]

This has been gone over with before on this topic, between the magnet and yes, including sticky notes. Think of it as the other way around: What if Dialed In! had its camera covered up by a lid with a hinge, and anyone who wanted their pictures taken would have to open it up and reveal the lens?

What about people who didn’t know there’d be a camera that would take their picture? That’s why the LEAST they could do is give a warning in advance that the machine has a camera and will take your picture.

(And then there are the Dialed In! machines I’ve seen that have had duct tape or Gorilla tape over the lens, the sort of tape that leaves a residue when you peel it off. That indicates there was someone who REALLY didn’t like having their pictures taken, either a player or an operator, and was warning other people that it would.)

@phishrace

@SunsetShimmer

On the other hand, amusement parks DO have a disclaimer, either at the entrance to the park or the entrance to the ride, that your picture may be taken and your likeness might appear in photos. Rides that take your picture, like Splash Mountain, have warnings beforehand too

Do they? I don’t remember seeing them years ago when they first came out and I can’t find one doing a GIS. I see Disneyland has proposition 65 warning signs (turns out Disneyland causes cancer), and Splash Mountain has a big warning sign, but nothing about getting photographed. Disneyland has a long list of rules on their website about park visitors using their cameras in the park (can’t stick the camera out the window on the monorail), but no disclaimer about guests being photographed. Used lots of different search terms and tried different parks with no luck. Perhaps the disclaimer is on the back of the ticket, or in small print on the website where you purchase and print tickets?

I remember seeing them, but perhaps they’re gone now, for some reason?

Then again, it may be that countries where privacy is a very serious matter are also countries where you are discouraged from standing out, and to speak up and complain about something is a form of standing out. If the people who designed these rides and such have never received a large number of complaints about getting their pictures taken, then I guess they figured it wasn’t a big deal.

I knew about these rides though, and I never went on any of them. (Then again, I am also the sort to not really like thrill rides in the first place.)

[MrMCarlson]

Hey remember how they used to display video cameras in department stores. Do they still do that like out at best buy?

[flynnibus]

@SunsetShimmer

This has been gone over with before on this topic, between the magnet and yes, including sticky notes. Think of it as the other way around: What if Dialed In! had its camera covered up by a lid with a hinge, and anyone who wanted their pictures taken would have to open it up and reveal the lens?

Then you’d lose a large part of your product due to ‘missed/didnt know/etc’ and the feature could die from lack of use. As a product manager you want to make sure your functionality is highly visible, and you want adoption to be easy. It’s the simple “do you default it on, or off?” question. And you always try to default ON unless there is a significant risk or something you are trying to avoid.

The problem here is you have a small minority impacted by this feature… the question is should it be on the minority to handle their own concerns, or should everyone share that burden? Given the precedent all around us… It’s MHO that expecting everyone to bend to this minority belief would be a bigger negative than simply having some people handle their own concerns.

@SunsetShimmer

What about people who didn’t know there’d be a camera that would take their picture? That’s why the LEAST they could do is give a warning in advance that the machine has a camera and will take your picture.

Considering the scope and reach of the camera is immediately where the person already is… most would consider it inconsequential.

Maybe a compromise @keefer would be to simply allow the high score save to be canceled at the end. When you put up the high score, let them ‘opt out’ of the shot being saved with a flipper hold. That instructional text could be displayed on screen. This way, the camera ONLY would function within the scope of the individual player’s game. The camera would work during their game, but no persistence would happen. And maybe something in the attract mode or startup could mention the camera’s use or show it (even in theme or playfully… instead of some legal wall of text)

[yancy]

…or for those who don’t want their face displayed even temporarily (like during selfie mode), maybe a prompt like “hold both flippers to disable camera” before each player plunges ball one. And maybe an option for home users to disable the prompt completely.

[flynnibus]

My compromise was scoped to intentionally KEEP the ‘in game’ experience the same, and address purely the idea of persistence. Clearly it’s easy to just provide a player an opt out for everything… but then you also open the door to neutering the feature entirely for everyone. My proposal did not open that door, and still ensured the camera would be used all the time, and also provide a means of ‘warning’ for those self conscious about it. It provides a means to address the legal issues without tossing the feature into step-child territory.

[calvin12]

home user don’t need that option at all Yancy. The menus allow the camera to be turned off. or as a home user you can use the camera blocker.

[yancy]

Sorry, my double negative was confusing. I meant, an option to disable the (hypothetical) prompt to disable the camera. Basically a way to make sure the camera is always on, for those who ride or die selfies.